Photogenic removal

[rbtree]

Thanks for that, Pete. Mark and Tree Imagineeers deserve respect.

Nothing in that test comes as a surprise. Of course, any good rigger knows not to use carabiners that way. If they are used as I and others have described, there is little chance of failure.....I won't say no chance.....

I also sometimes choke my lifeline when ascending a tricky spar (if there's no high tie point, which there usually is, and most always when descending. I don't bother to do it the proper way, which utilizes a running bowline, but use a carabiner....again, in normal working situations, I fail to see much of an issue, as the stem is usually not under 6 inches, and most all slack is kept out of the system. Thus, the chances of a load approaching, say, 3 kn are minimal.

 

[sotc]

interesting link pete. didnt understand the graphs very well but photos were good. looked like the steel held up well, and the long aluminum (aluminium ) ones didnt. short steel biners seem like they would do ok for the most part. i do like the shackel idea though, ill look further intothat

 

[RIVERRAT]

Sean has made a good point, don't overlook or dismiss the shackle option.

But then one might as well tie a Running bowline. By the time one undoes a shackle & sets it I can have a proper Bowline set.
& that says nothing of the chance of dropping the pin & hitting some one with it on the ground. A shackle pin from a not so high distance can penetrate some ones hardhat.

 

[Bounce]

True 'dat. I guess that's why a lot of folks use a carabiner. However, it's not like using a carabiner solves all your problems - you just trade one problem for another. In the case of the biner, you've got a sideloading problem there is no way to overcome. With the shackle, you've got problem with the screw pin you can overcome if you are careful not to drop it. Myself, I'll take the problem I can overcome rather than the one I can't.

 

[SkwerI]

I disagree, Sean. The sideloading problem can be overcome just like the shackle pin problem can be overcome, simply pay attention and don't sideload the carabiner.

 

[Bounce]

For the sake of argument, if you were to use a carabiner to choke a line onto a 6" diameter piece, how do you avoid placing force against the side of the gate? On larger diameter pieces, I would agree with you, but I don't see how to avoid this on smaller diamters.

 

[SkwerI]

A) You wrap the rope twice around the limb before clipping the carabiner back on the rope.

B) If it's that small, then it isn't heavy enough to put enough side load on the carabiner to worry about. The carabiner isn't going to explode or crumble with 50-75 lbs side load, and you'd be hard pressed to get more side load than that even with a 400-500 lb limb. If the carabiner was that weak then you'd be able to break it with your bare hands.


edit- C) You NEVER allow side load on the gate. ALWAYS make sure the load is riding on the spine of the biner, NEVER on the gate.

 

[sotc]

B) If it's that small, then it isn't heavy enough to put enough side load on the carabiner to worry about.

 

[rbtree]

exactly,

I'm a bit surprised ya'll are still hashing this relative non -issue over.....

of interest is this....the hitch prolly has a name....if you take say, 5 round turns around a limb/log, the termination link will feel almost no force....

And, let me repeat... there is no way a 500 pound limb is going to apply over 100 pounds on a biner, if tied my way....Now, this is a biner rated a 11,250 pounds.

Thus, I repeat, non-issue--for experienced climbers anyhow.

 

[wiley_p]

exactly,

I'm a bit surprised ya'll are still hashing this relative non -issue over.....

of interest is this....the hitch prolly has a name....if you take say, 5 round turns around a limb/log, the termination link will feel almost no force....

And, let me repeat... there is no way a 500 pound limb is going to apply over 100 pounds on a biner, if tied my way....Now, this is a biner rated a 11,250 pounds.

Thus, I repeat, non-issue--for experienced climbers anyhow.

It would be called a Tensionless hitch. Just about as strong as your rope, bomber way to create a rescue anchor if one can spare the line.