Barberchair?

[flushcut]

Reading EMRs thread about his leaner and his use of binder straps has got me wondering. Just how much "clamping" pressure do you need to prevent or successfully limit the split? For argument sake let's use his tree as the model because there are pictures of it and most here have already seen them. Would one strap have been enough with one wrap or all three with the strap wrapped several times? Anyway it was just a thought that popped in my head.

 

[RIVERRAT]

I dont know that any one can give exact figures regarding actual force in lbs. Simply because every situation is different. But On bigger stuff I have not hesitated using a few boomers & chain.

Take a look at Gerry B's famous pic he had that chained up pretty well.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

With Barber chair, can we ever be too careful?

 

[flushcut]

Sure and in High Climbers when the pics got out an old timer at the bar told him they would have done him no good. I know it would vary from situation to situation but thought it would make for good discussion.

 

[emr]

We were only going to do two but we had 3 and we decided it was cheap insurance so we did 3. My guess is that one would have been sufficient. But like I said.... cheap insurance. I really can't speak to the bigger stuff, I will let the pros chime in on that.

 

[NeTree]

I can't say, because I've never used them.

Being in the right spot and making the right cuts are my method.

 

[flushcut]

With Barber chair, can we ever be too careful?

No we can't overkill is piece of mind in this work but I was wondering what the rest of your guys thoughts are.

 

[Al Smith]

I never used straps always used chain and binders myself .

 

[Jack]

Reading EMRs thread about his leaner and his use of binder straps has got me wondering. Just how much "clamping" pressure do you need to prevent or successfully limit the split? For argument sake let's use his tree as the model because there are pictures of it and most here have already seen them. Would one strap have been enough with one wrap or all three with the strap wrapped several times? Anyway it was just a thought that popped in my head.

GREAT THREAD! Some additional thoughts ... really just some questions: are binder straps the best option for light to medium stems? - are heavy chains best for heavy stems? - all with multiple wraps? There seems to be only four 'practical' options to bind a stem; chain, cable, rope, & straps - are there more? Aren't binder straps relatively 'new' to the application. Years ago, when binder straps didn't exist, chains were the go-to choice for heavy binding - in many applications, they still are - right?

However, from one who has seen failures in chain, cable, rope, & straps -- all were scary but chain was the most scary - with explosive shrapnel that can penetrate a suit of armor. Are the actual loads really calculable? Do binder straps really give the most warning of imminent failure? Do binder straps really offer the least collateral damage? Then there's the question of ratchet placement - can it go whipping around the stem if the strap fails? Where is the best placement of the ratchet mechanism to minimize collateral damage in case of failure?

I really like binder straps - cheap, light, easy to use; on the ground and aloft. But, I rarely have to bind anything larger than two feet. This thread raises many questions and concerns. I'm hoping the most experienced here will offer some sage advice about using {or not using} binder straps with some guidance about safety, best practices, etc.

THANKS

 

[Reddog]

I can't say, because I've never used them.

Being in the right spot and making the right cuts are my method.

+1

 

[Al Smith]

FWIW I've seen chain loops stretch so far out of kelter you could drive them into the ground with a sledge hammer .The only time I've ever seen a chain fail was if it got a sudden jerk .Not saying it otherwise could not fail but I've never seen it myself .

By the same token I've pulled 5/8" wire chokers into with a little D4 Cat which shouldn't have had enough power to do so .

Nylon would have some advantage in the fact it will elongate to some degree before it fails .

My theory for what it's worth .It would stand to reason that if you could stop the thing from spreading on a crack out it would effectively give more of a mechainical advantage rather than letting it open up .

It the cracks runs up the tree in effect the opened crack would become somewhat like a first class lever putting more strain on the device attempting to hold it back .Opinions may vary on that though .

 

[stig]

Whatever you bind the tree with doesn't really have to hold that much.
Just keep the tree from splitting while you cut maybe 2-5" inches further and get beyond the barberchair point of hinge thickness.

Personally I use chain, simply because I always keep a logging chain in the truck.

 

[emr]

I would think that the diameter of the tree would have to factor in. I don't think you could have used chains on that small guy that i just did. Is it possible to use chain on a 12" diameter tree? I would think straps would be much more user friendly in situations like that.

 

[stig]

The logging chains that we use here have a kind of locking hook on one end, that hooks over the chain links and locks the chain off. So basically you could use it on a 2" dia. tree.

I normally make my face cut first and then put the chain on, so the unused length of the chain is hanging down in the middle of the face.
That way I don't cut into it by being careless.

 

[NeTree]

Same way you would rig a piece for blocking.

The idiot Mike and I worked with for a bit would always tie first, cut last. Every rope he owned was full of nicks from trying to hold the rope away from the cut while he faced it out. :roll:

 

[stig]

You should have given him a chain instead of rope.
That way he would have learned it.
Maybe!

 

[emr]

I see. I was thinking you would use a chain binder to tighten it up with. You obviously think that just chain without a binder is fine, at least for smaller stuff, correct? Is there a point where you want a binder on it as opposed to just chain?

 

[Jack]

The logging chains that we use here have a kind of locking hook on one end, that hooks over the chain links and locks the chain off. So basically you could use it on a 2" dia. tree.

I normally make my face cut first and then put the chain on, so the unused length of the chain is hanging down in the middle of the face.
That way I don't cut into it by being careless.

Sure would appreciate a picture of that locking hook ... gotta link?

 

[NeTree]

You should have given him a chain instead of rope.
That way he would have learned it.
Maybe!

You can't fix stupid. Stupid is... FOREVER.

Just ask Skwerl... he's met him.

 

[stig]

No.
I'll just put the chain around the tree and lock it off.
Like I said before, the force needed to keep a tree from splitting isn't that great IMO.

I don't much use the chain on leaners, since I have a lot of experience dealing with patly blown over trees after spending about 2½ years of my life cleaning up after big storms that have knocked 1000s of acres of timber over.
So I have a good feeling for what I can get away with and several method of dealing with the really bad ones.

I chain trees when we pull straightgrained trees with a lot of side or back lean.
The amount of hinge wood needed to keep those committed to the intended lay will sometimes be enough to make them barberchair, and since cutting the hinge thinner would result in loss of control, I chain them.

That makes the worh safer and I don't risk ruining a good log.

 

[stig]

No.
I'll just put the chain around the tree and lock it off.
Like I said before, the force needed to keep a tree from splitting isn't that great IMO.

I don't much use the chain on leaners, since I have a lot of experience dealing with patly blown over trees after spending about 2½ years of my life cleaning up after big storms that have knocked 1000s of acres of timber over.
So I have a good feeling for what I can get away with and several method of dealing with the really bad ones.

I chain trees when we pull straightgrained trees with a lot of side or back lean.
The amount of hinge wood needed to keep those committed to the intended lay will sometimes be enough to make them barberchair, and since cutting the hinge thinner would result in loss of control, I chain them.

That makes the work safer and I don't risk ruining a good log.

 

[RIVERRAT]

On bigger diameter stuff I use a boomer/binder. I have had chain ride up the trunk a ways when I just used the chain hook over a link. As it started to split out at the bottom.
The tension created with a boomer/binder helps a great deal to hold the chain in place if or when a BB chair starts.

 

[Jack]

No. ...

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