O.C.G.D. Thread, part two

Knotorious said:
I'm not trying to inspire anyone to use my system. I merely shared it with the forum because I thought it was unique and interesting as far as gear is concerned (the topic of this thread). This is going to be a device that I, personally, will be using for recreational climbing. This is not a piece of equipment that I will be using in conditions with the same degree of hazardousness as doing tree work.

Look, all I'm saying to the forum is that I took the time to create a homemade pulley saver because a) I cannot afford an actual pulley saver, b) I wanted to make a video demonstrating how to use, install, and uninstall a pulley saver (where at no point do I encourage anyone to use my design), and c) I have been in need of a pulley saver for quite some time and I have a number of different uses/applications that I will now be able to use it for.

I fully appreciate your concern regarding the carabiner. Also, my 20x retrieval and 20x installation tests are merely the very beginning of what will be a lengthy period of ongoing testing. The second pulley saver I made has a tied loop formed with a double fisherman bend, with a Rock Exotica Omniblock directly connected to it. This pulley saver is 12 feet (the other is 16), before knots were tied into it (so each one is likely a bit shorter by around 2 feet), and is otherwise identical in design to the one shown in the photos. I am experimenting with different designs and -- allow me to reiterate -- testing is far from complete.

All I'm saying to you, and the forum, is that -- thus far -- both systems work perfectly and I, personally, feel safe climbing on both pulley savers. If people can use a carabiner in choke formation around a spar, and if people can use a carabiner with a sling to create a variety of different redirects, then it seems to me that using a carabiner in a pulley saver, strictly in ways which ensure that the carabiner is angled away from the limb or spar it is anchored to, is not as "terrifying" as you seem to think it is.

These are my personal pulley savers that I have built for the low cost of zero dollars. Do not make the mistake of interpreting my decision to share my design as me encouraging others to do exactly what I have done. Without any doubt in my mind, having a pulley saver which does not have a carabiner incorporated into the design is undeniably safer. However, I, personally, do not feel terrified by my design which does incorporate one, so long as it is used cautiously and considerately.

I'm a big boy. I have more than enough knowledge and experience to make decisions regarding the types and degrees of risk I'm willing to take on as a recreational climber. I view the carabiner, for my personal and specific applications, as relatively low risk.
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well, you said : „So, in true Knotorious fashion, I decided right then and there that I would make my own pulleysaver, and I would use this opportunity to make a video all about how to make your own pulleysaver“

if you think it‘s cool to use a carabiner in that fashion… but you spread those information and some people might mistake this for a good idea.

for clarification: using a properly aligned carabiner on your choked lifeline on the spar is considered ok because as long as the spar is big enough (i think above 20“) it will be a very strong connection (has been tested). also it is close and easy to constantly inspect unless ofcourse it’s used for descending in case of an accident.

i‘ve had carabiners open that i used for redirects.. not as problematic as my main tip.

are you here to learn?
 
friedrich said:
well, you said : „So, in true Knotorious fashion, I decided right then and there that I would make my own pulleysaver, and I would use this opportunity to make a video all about how to make your own pulleysaver“

if you think it‘s cool to use a carabiner in that fashion… but you spread those information and some people might mistake this for a good idea.

for clarification: using a properly aligned carabiner on your choked lifeline on the spar is considered ok because as long as the spar is big enough (i think above 20“) it will be a very strong connection (has been tested). also it is close and easy to constantly inspect unless ofcourse it’s used for descending in case of an accident.

i‘ve had carabiners open that i used for redirects.. not as problematic as my main tip.

are you here to learn?
Click to expand...
Yes, I did say that. However, you're assuming that I either already made a video about my device, which has only seen minimal one-man testing, and that I'm so inconceivably negligent that I would use a few days worth of testing for a homemade pulley savers as ABSOLUTE PROOF that I am willing to risk not just my own life to it, but the entire internet's lives. You probably should have asked me some clarifying questions, such as: when do you plan on making this build tutorial? Have you already? How much testing will you do before you make your video?

Also, I was in NO WAY suggesting that using a carabiner to choke a rope around a spar is somehow dangerous or "terrifying." My point was that, if we can use carabiners -- and their gates -- pressed up very hard against a spar to create a spar anchor that even you agree is safe (even though there are no carabiner manufacturers that I am aware of who have ever stated that their carabiners can be used in this fashion), then why is it so crazy of me to be using a carabiner for my pulley saver?

Furthermore, as far as I'm concerned, and as far as physics are concerned, if you create a redirect (of any kind) it becomes your new TIP. Why do people use redirects? Mostly so that they can create safer rope angles, and create rope angles which help aid with whatever work or movements need to be done in the canopy. So, in most cases, if someone creates a redirect in order to optimize their rope angle (vast majority of all cases follow this example), then your new TIP is your redirect (IN ESSENCE).

Because if that redirect were to fail, you would very likely take a very dangerous swing plus a very dangerous drop at the same time. And we're talking the potential for serious falls here. Obviously, your original TIP will always be whatever anchoring method you were using prior to the redirect, but it would be ridiculous to not consider a redirect a secondary/new/temporary TIP due to the potential for not only a significant fall, but a significant swing, if a carabiner were to open or fail catastrophically.

So if I can use a carabiner for my redirect, which we've established is effectively my new temporary TIP when used that way, then what's all the fuss about using one for my pulley saver? Again, there is not a single method for which I will use my pulley saver which sees the gate of my carabiner in contact with anything whatsoever except the eye to eye hitch cord that it is affixed to.

If people think that choking a rope around a spar as an anchor (with the gate crammed hard against a spar) is safe and "cool"...which ton of reputable climbers do...and if people think that using a carabiner for life support with a redirect (which amounts to a TIP) is safe and "cool"...and they do (there are very few redirects that I can think of which do NOT involve using a carabiner in a CRITICAL LIFE SUPPORT application)...then why the ever loving fizzity fizzity f*ck is using a carabiner for my pulley saver so egregious?

I am here to learn. But only from people whose "logic" resounds with me. While I COMPLETELY agree that NOT using a carabiner is SAFER. I completely DISAGREE that using a carabiner as part of an anchor point, in the form of one aspect of a pulley saver, is in a way that is less risky than using a carabiner to choke a spar and equally as risky as using a carabiner as a life supporting component in a redirect (AKA 90% of every redirect I've ever seen or heard of).
 
petzl has done testing regarding the choked carabiner on a spar thing, the info shouldn’t be hard to find.

we might just not agree because this whole content-creation-influencer stuff is very boring to me. sadly people like graeme mcmahon don‘t post more video‘s but youtube is full of unboxing-videos.

i might be wrong but it seems to me that you are very proud of your cambium-saver and other videos and came here to receive a pat on the back.

there is a good group on facebook called the splice rack, maybe run your ideas past them. might make an interesting discussion.
 
We should hold a competition between Kyle and knotcase, who can make the post with most words.

Knotty, the problem, as I see it, is that you, an out of shape rec-climber, go on the net and pass yourself off as a teacher.
Hence my calling you a new Murphy .
In case you don't know, Murphy is, to himself, THE WORLD'S GREATEST TREEMAN!!!!!!
To us professionals he is a clown, who can't even make a decent face cut, and will eventually get one of his disciples killed for following his " out of the box" ways.

You are doing the same thing.
We are professional climbers here, some with close to 50 years in the trees.

We don't really need a fat rec climber to tell us how to do it.
 
Speaking of long posts, are you guys typing on a caputer, typing on a phone, or dictating through a phone? I type on the phone and it is cumbersome, leading to naturally shorter posts. When there is a lot to say and the house is quite (rare) the dictaphone method works well with a little editing.
 
I hate phones so much. My anxiety level shoots up if I have to type more than a couple words. It's cool having that much computing power in my pocket, but anything that involves typing is a non fun chore.
 
friedrich said:
petzl has done testing regarding the choked carabiner on a spar thing, the info shouldn’t be hard to find.

we might just not agree because this whole content-creation-influencer stuff is very boring to me. sadly people like graeme mcmahon don‘t post more video‘s but youtube is full of unboxing-videos.

i might be wrong but it seems to me that you are very proud of your cambium-saver and other videos and came here to receive a pat on the back.

there is a good group on facebook called the splice rack, maybe run your ideas past them. might make an interesting discussion.


stig said:
We should hold a competition between Kyle and knotcase, who can make the post with most words.

Knotty, the problem, as I see it, is that you, an out of shape rec-climber, go on the net and pass yourself off as a teacher.
Hence my calling you a new Murphy .
In case you don't know, Murphy is, to himself, THE WORLD'S GREATEST TREEMAN!!!!!!
To us professionals he is a clown, who can't even make a decent face cut, and will eventually get one of his disciples killed for following his " out of the box" ways.

You are doing the same thing.
We are professional climbers here, some with close to 50 years in the trees.

We don't really need a fat rec climber to tell us how to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
You two are making some very serious misjudgments about myself and my intentions regarding posting about my adjustable pulley saver.

Let's make one thing abundantly clear: I have yet to tell anyone what to do. You said a carabiner was "terrifying" and all I did was say that I was okay with it and had a discussion with you about it. Sorry that upset you so much. Let's make another thing abundantly clear: My ego isn't that big. In fact, my self-esteem is so low that I see a therapist about it. Finally, the POINT of my post was to simply share something I'm proud of.

For people on here who disapprove of me (because I do YouTube and because I talk about it; the same way everyone else in here talks about their lives), and because that annoys you and them, and because I'm a recreational climber (AKA I'm NOT one of the guys, despite climbing exactly like all of you and having similar interests), you seem to think that I'm talking about YouTube in order to get attention or to gain approval. This is categorically incorrect.

Buh, I already KNOW that nobody watches my videos from this website except may 5-20 people per video. You must think I'm egomaniacal. I could not care less about what anyone on here thinks about my YouTubing and I do not care if only a handful of people on here actually enjoy my videos. But guess what? I should be allowed to talk about what goes on in my life the same way that everyone else on this forum does.

If I'm a "fat rec climber" not worth listening to (@stig) and if me talking about YouTubing is so "boring" (@friedrich), then maybe you should stop interacting with my posts and stop telling ME what to do (let's remember, unlike myself, your first post quite literally told me what to do. And I simply defending my right to do whatever I want for no reason other than I'm an adult, an experienced tree climber, and someone who is capable of determining how much risk they want to take on.

You are the ones who care too much about me. I couldn't care less about what you think about my YouTubing. I already know nobody does. Do you think I'm some kind of rube who lacks self-awareness? Sheesh. C'mon guys. The secret's been out for over 2 years. Almost nobody on this forum gives a f*ck about my channel. Which is why I never mention my YouTubing hoping anyone on here will care. I'm just literally relaying what I did with my life. Sorry that's so offensive to you guys.
 
"An experienced tree climber"
Compared to who, exactly?
You are hanging with some of the top people in the treeclimbing business, here.
Apparently you consider yourself an equal, who can go on Youtube and teach "how to climb".
We have many members here who have been climbing trees way longer than you have been alive. Hardly any of them feel qualified to set up a Youtube "here is how you do it".
As for me calling you fat......I could somewhat handle your whole show if you were in such shape as to make me believe the whole "experienced tree climber" thing.
You are not.
I simply refuse to believe you climb on a daily basis, no way.
You wouldn't last half a day on a hard take down.
Probably not even an hour.
I have a young female apprentice who could run rings around you in a tree, but you don't see her showing off on Youtube.
 
stig said:
"An experienced tree climber"
Compared to who, exactly?
You are hanging with some of the top people in the treeclimbing business, here.
Apparently you consider yourself an equal, who can go on Youtube and teach "how to climb".
We have many members here who have been climbing trees way longer than you have been alive. Hardly any of them feel qualified to set up a Youtube "here is how you do it".
As for me calling you fat......I could somewhat handle your whole show if you were in such shape as to make me believe the whole "experienced tree climber" thing.
You are not.
I simply refuse to believe you climb on a daily basis, no way.
You wouldn't last half a day on a hard take down.
Probably not even an hour.
I have a young female apprentice who could run rings around you in a tree, but you don't see her showing off on Youtube.
Click to expand...
I don't compare myself with anyone on here. I just talk about trees and climbing and relate to everyone I can. I also have never said that I climb every single day, nor have I ever claimed to be in that good of shape. In fact, I've said previously how out of shape I am. But that has slowly been changing, and once I move to MA, I'll be able to climb even more. But that isn't the point.

@stig, what makes you think that I care what you think? If you don't think I'm worth paying attention to, then please put me back on ignore. You're probably right Stig, I probably wouldn't be able to do an all day takedown in the shape I'm currently in. But people's strength and fitness levels can change, and I've only been overweight for a short few years of my entire life. Think what you want. I seriously don't care. I'm just trying to live my life and talk about it on this forum.

I don't "show off" on YouTube. I make 100% educational videos, all of which are completely accurate and display entirely safe practices. I make YouTube videos because I love educating people. It's not to "show off."

EDIT: I'm done talking about this. Let's get this thread back on track.
 
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