Best facecut for negative rigging?

Brock Mayo

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Hey all,

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but what is your preferred facecut when you are negative rigging? Maybe the question should be what is the safest notch? I've heard some theories about a narrow notch pushing the spar away from the rigging and balancing the load better on impact, but I've also heard the open face is the safest...
 
Bird-beak, open face cut is supposed to be safer. Situationally dependent.


Aerial face-cuts get overused a lot when roping. Face cuts give directional control. If you don't need directional control, its not needed, frequently.
 
I agree with Sean on all counts. If needed a shallow birds-beak is what I'll use, I want the log to fold over and not jump out.
 
If you were to be chunking down a spar(vertical or lean toward the lay),
and can snap-cut the piece effectively (I'm envisioning a 2' diameter log chunk, 3-4' tall),
tied to the side,
you can snap-cut it,
and wiggle it to the point where its balancing on the far edge of the spar,
and tip it over. Snap cuts are really easy, fast, and effective.
Fighting hinges with a pull rope is over-rated.

If you cut a sniped-snapcut/ stepcut,
AKA Gord's "magic cut" (say 2/3rd depth on a horizontal, then cut a humboldt snipe (full width dutchman/ bypass-cut to be politically correct), with a low back-cut release),
then logs release themselves due to gravity/ undercutting the COG, without fighting a hinge, needing a pull rope, etc,
while retaining the ability to aim it where you need it with the snipe.

This is so much easier if you might be chunking down a bunch of spars at the same time right together (a grove of dog-hair conifers or co-dom, perhaps). You might be reaching a long way from the spar you're standing on, to another spar being cut. Nailing a facecut and hinge is important, because if you get part of the hinge you expect, it might swing the piece. With the Magic Cut, you know before the release cut that any hinge had been cut.

I've used this on a 5'+ cottonwood spar, from hooks, no overhead support. Waaay easier to Magic-cut double-cut with the MS660/ 36" bar, than trying to fight a facecut and proper hinge (which, of course, has a critically important place). I probably bored the 'face-cut'/ sniped section in half. Since the hinge is cut through, and I used a humboldt, the 1/2 wedge was pretty ready to wiggle out, downhill and fall out.
 
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Thanks guys! Yeah I've always heard the open face to be the best when you need it. The "magic cut" is what made me wonder the other day. I was watching how far the piece would jump away from the tree, not a problem with a good person on the rope, but probably less than ideal. That cut is the single biggest time saver for me Sean! I should probably be sending you or Gord money everytime I use it, which is about every vertical spar. Thanks!
 
Usually, most cuts will work fine on most rigging, on most trees. Academically, there are going to be differences, and Best Practices.

Rotten trees, and big weights, etc... stacking odds in your favor adds up.


Personally, I typically just pop in a humboldt, and call it good.



When you're getting into dicey trees, keeping some energy-dampening limbs on the tree, rather than stripping the whole trunk on the way up to the topping cut, can be helpful. If you're on a slow-to-taper, forest p-pole, some limbs definitely are noticeable.
 
Well played sir, well played :lol:

So basically you undermine the cog of a snap cut, not worrying about the Dutchman? Yeah that seems much easier if that's it. Always learning something here :rockon:
 
Thanks guys! Yeah I've always heard the open face to be the best when you need it. The "magic cut" is what made me wonder the other day. I was watching how far the piece would jump away from the tree, not a problem with a good person on the rope, but probably less than ideal. That cut is the single biggest time saver for me Sean! I should probably be sending you or Gord money everytime I use it, which is about every vertical spar. Thanks!

You can make it "jump" more or less distance by changing the size of the opening of the face cut. A narrow face cut (say 15 degrees) will cause the piece to be at about 85 degrees when the hinge wood breaks, causing it to jump off of the stump and continue in the direction it is pointed, which is away. If you cut a much larger face cut (say 90 degrees), the chunk will be perpendicular to the spar when the hinge wood breaks and it won't "jump" away from the stump at all.
 
Aerial face-cuts get overused a lot when roping. Face cuts give directional control. If you don't need directional control, its not needed, frequently.
.
i think facecut can be used for softer dampened hand-off to rig.
In some scenarios even think of it like a 2nd hitchpoint along with the rope much further out on load in a basket between both.
Use hinge like was a rope that helped position real rope's hitchpoint directly under the rig point;
then cut hinge free; like was a temporary butt tie.
>>actually evolved to this strategy, after using a temporary butt tie w/quick release or simply cut thru after using to position to main rig w/less impact.
.
Also; when rigging to side; rope will normally slacken as load moves toward it;
use some hinge force to direct away from hitch point; tightening rope more, not less, then start downward tilt on tighter line;
then let that tighter line pull load back around proper direction as also allowing with saw.
.
Some directional in each yes, but also slower movement into position before tear-off hands off to rope.

****************************.

Would commonly kerf-face lean side of a top; sometimes dbl.kerf face; then perhaps nip from sides some too;
to try to setup for fastest back-cut into a slamming kerf face /dutchman force used to launch pine top over fence etc.
.
Look at full face dutchman of full face kerf on lean force side; this offers NO relief path on close
>>a more step dutchman would only close lean side; and offer open path of relief/path of least resistance calling coyly out to raging forward forces of felling offering the offside;felling into the balance between the 2 calling forces
.
i think in comics imagery of a binary(either this or that; once force loaded/empowered) computer logic of programming commands given for a program to run thru:
Close of force across on fiber column's minimals axis/grain is a mechanical-logics flex command; unless not enough force can seize
Close of force inline on fiber column's maximum axis/grain is a mechanical-logics stop command; unless too much force can shear if heavy/ launch if light
If whole tree is on top; it is dead stop if not split decision of Barber chair as the internal forces are still raging forward; over ruling the constitution of the spar column.
If only small top is on top of same type early full face dutch close can seize or launch top, try to set up and slam close faster for more launch.
>>(felling or topping w/full face dutch into lean that offers lean side no open path of relief/full face dutch)
i always try to disect the mechanics and view in climbing/felling/bucking and then prove reverse strategies to view all aspects and prove same to theory.
 
If you cut a sniped-snapcut/ stepcut,
AKA Gord's "magic cut" (say 2/3rd depth on a horizontal, then cut a humboldt snipe (full width dutchman/ bypass-cut to be politically correct), with a low back-cut release),
then logs release themselves due to gravity/ undercutting the COG, without fighting a hinge, needing a pull rope, etc,
while retaining the ability to aim it where you need it with the snipe.

Sean...is this what you are describing?
 

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Not quite.

First step: deeper horizontal cut#1,
Second Step: sloping cut meets the horizontal somewhere short of the depth of the horizontal cut #1.
Third Step: horizontal Cut #2, below the height of Horizontal cut #1, from step 1.

You aren't worrying about cutting off part of your hinge. You need to cut off all of it!

I come in from the back toward the direction of the lay, fast. Your saw will be captured on the spar, no risk of saw snatch.

Basically, you can cut Step 1 until you can see that its starting to set down on the saw a hair. Maybe 70-80% through. Doesn't have to be as much.

Never caused me in problem.



If you're working on hard-leaning piece, I'd put a sapwood kerf cut in the front, and use a Coos Bay.




I'll peel wood into the rigging when I can, allowing the tree to use up energy breaking wood fibers, rather than a traditional facecut, sometimes. Birch, and probably cherry will hang on the bark. I did a bigger birch rig-down from multiple trunks, rigged on to the other, and back onto itself for the last, biggest trunk that was right over the dropzone. Steep driveway and steps, low voltage and keeper trees below, glass railing off to the side, and another birch.

When I was cutting from one spar-rigged to another. I back-cut the tip-tied/ mid-tied pieces, let it hang between the bark on the butt, and the rope. When it was settled, I cut it free. The reduced the rigging force on the rope and rigging point, plus negated the need for an anti-swing tag line or butt-rigging line. With only one rigging line, plumb over the steep driveway, pieces naturally settled to where they were easily moved down open, steep concrete to the loading zone.

As I was negative-blocking, rather than facing pieces, i cut 90-95% of the way through, then pushed it over. It hinged over on the strap, hanging next to the block, basically. Sucked up the slack and I cut the remaining fibers. Very little dropping or shock-loading. I had a mature japanese maple directly below, so I had less room to let it run, but didn't need to let it run.
 
Sure. Give me a few minutes. Drawing pictures and taking a photograph is sometimes the easiest bet.

3 diagrams, another cup of coffee, coming up.
 
First example, neutral spar, or slight-moderate (not barberchair-type ) favorable lean.
Second example, swing wood to overhead/ to-side rigging point, using a sapwood strap to hold-back/ 'butt-tie'. This was leaning on my birch example, so there was no pushing off the piece...gravity-activated.
Third example, negative blocking. This cuts the force. Makes it easy to self-rig with Aerial friction (natural crotch, munter, top-side metal friction device). A person can just attach subsequent blocks with a midline knot (running Bowline on a bight, clove hitch with tie-off half-hitches on a bight). Groundie can be doing other independent work on ground while climber/ lift-operator finishes spar.
IMG_20180218_082206566.jpg IMG_20180218_082829802.jpg
 
And notice that Sean's pic loaded correctly.

I bet a nickel it's not the forum's software frigging some people up.
 
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