Dent on hinging 2

murphy4trees

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ANyone remember this thread started by Kenny in July 2002..

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/dent-on-hinging.4451/

He was trying to explain a concept that you probably understand now if you've been paying attention to the forums...
But back then it wasn't well understood outside of the logging world... He caught a ton of shit from small minded arbs that couldn't get out of their boxes..

I sure AM glad he kept at it anyway And pretty sure there are a bunch of people learning from the heated discussions that seem to follow many of my posts...

I put $5,800 worth of locust trees on the ground today from two sets of the bucket in about 5 hours... I didn't do that by operating in a box..... the last tree I reduced from 2300 to 1800 because the little old lady who owned the house was on a fixed income and she asked nicely.. Her son in law told me she got a price of 2,700 six years ago... Tree as on the ground in a little over an hour...

If you look closely you can see the tree ended up falling left of the hinge, that top was one big heavy locust lead hanging over the house
 

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  • sidlean locust over house.jpg
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I like eating box...

I also thought that holding wood in the hinge was there to keep it from falling left or right, kinda common sense no? And that tension forces are the predominate force opposing side lean because it is a weaker failure point than compression. Am I missing something?
 
That was sometime ago; i was mortified when first saw pix gone.
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i'd say that thread has been cleaned/sanitized, some of the posting id names are even different!
>>spawned many threads
>>i'm not sure what pic went with what or even if i have all after the gauntlet of years and HD crashes.
>>even good friend wayback machine can't find!
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i believe most to start are here:
myTreeLessons.com/Drawings Archive-Hinge.htm
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extended into going Dutch:
myTreeLessons.com/Drawings Archive-Dutchmans.htm
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eventually leaving msPaint behind for playing with Flash (that is being defecated, and will fully defecate in 2020 as i'm still trying to learn..) :
myTreeLessons.com/Dutch Push in 1 side of Face.htm
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In using Dutchman, during face close;
system Naturally often goes to tapered type hinge somewhat by the way it incites tear-off across hinge from close side first.
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Mostly use Dutch in the lower loaded ranges of bucking and climbing, rather than felling.
>>felling so highly loaded and leverage; most Dutch lessons come back around to why to perfectly machine faces and make no Dutchman.
>>Have found use for Dutch felling in making head bounce off side obstacle rather than jam by getting face close just previous so push in face and at head/stem co-ordinate
>>after all Dutch and tree in foreground are both force path obstacles in generic terms ; Dutch is just within the face itself.
>>especially from backleaner super flexxing thinner hinge in stage1 and then stage2 falling into stepped/tiered face to help steer clear or at least only give glancing blow to obstacle/other tree;then inciting tearoff across hinge ; so is simply not (fully) resisting obstacle's VERY high leveraged (distance from obstacle push to hinge as pivot, especially if encompasses tree center of gravity) push to side.
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Tear-offs on 1 side can even give almost spin, so normally try to maintain at least minimal small patch on compression side if center punch face;
If using Dutch step that can make that side tear-off totally make sure is fully committed or can have unexpected results.
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i think 1 reason not to fell to lean, is to not fell into most direct gravity pull(softer hit on lawn, at more glancing angle force), and use some tree force to change direction.
>>for me this translates into bucking top bind to fold more towards 1:30 than 12 noon, theorizing fiercest pinch at 12noon so less compression at 1:30 AND dissipate some treeforce to make this change to take this longer route!
>>face to target axis 1:30, Dutch to compression side of force axis 12noon where it wants to go and you are pushing away from as tapered hinge pulls in tandem to face; same as felling. In climbing, face to 4:30 target axis, Dutch to compression side of force axis (6:00) to push to face as make tapered hinge at top pull to same.
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Kerf face side (sometimes no other facing)rather than step Dutch:
Undercutting a horizontal branch piece and then coming down from top is a kerf Dutch move,
inner fold is hinge pivot, face close is Dutch so gives support and takes some load off stretched fibers to not give infections 'courts and galleys' to hide in (Shigo) taking prep and finishing cuts with as little stretch on fibers as possible.
Similar kerf or kerf in face of vertical top can give face close and hop over fence; more powerful if make Dutch close sudden impact
 
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