Entrepreneurial business, the law of attraction and demographics

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Like Kevin, I have a wife who is a wizard at keeping the books.

In regards to getting business, it is just like picking up women*. They smell desperation and gravitate to those without it....



*I've been married longer than I care to remember and know sweet f#ck-all about picking up women.

How did I miss this thread?

To illustrate your point Treetx.

When I had decided to move out here I was wrapping up my business in the UK, I was still quoting work but telling the clients that I was moving so if they wanted me to do it a decision needed to be made quickly.

Fighting them off with stick I was.
Tell people there's only a limited supply of something, they want it bad!
 
As you know the PHC visits are based on need and how much money they need or want to throw around. High end residential is my market so it's fairly easy.

Yearly or every other year pruning is simply part if the package. I sell it as the less cuts and damage we have to inflinct in a given year the better for the tree. Perhaps its a front yard vs back yard kind of thing too. New builds are always great for actually starting the structural pruning process before the trees get too old and larger diameter removal cuts or many reduction ones may be necessary.

That's not to say I don't do work for more middle class folks that find me on the ol interweb that need some help here and there but the wealthy neighborhoods are what I'm gunning for.
 
meh, the most upmarket property (circa 8 Mill Australian dollars) I've been invited to bid at (on referral) I flicked the job to one of my guys and glad I did it- he thoroughly regretted it lol. Shouldn't really get caught up in sweeping generalization's though, the ideal client can afford professional work, cares about trees and is down to earth enough to be co-operative when it comes to getting er done.
 
I got to a point a few months ago where I was considering asking the prospective clients what they thought was a fair price for a project after discussing their needs and wants.

Great thread!

I actually tried the above several years ago. Most people thought I was crazy. I was just trying to encourage people to haggle more with me, instead of treating my quote as something that was set in stone so that they could call around and try to "beat" my quote.

I am focused nowadays on trying to move out of the residential-work side of things. There is just too much competition in my area, everyone has forced the price of tree work down to poverty levels. I hate constantly hunting down new customers. I hate just scraping by. I'm trying to slowly build a roster of commercial and institutional clients with yearly work - golf courses, cemeteries, schools, churches, etc. I wrote up this thing called the integrated tree management plan, which is all based around us doing regular site visits and communicating with our clients about their own trees. Property managers have enough on their plates without having to worry about keeping an eye on all of their trees. Often times they miss issues for a long time that we would pick right up on, and then we don't end up getting called in until it's too late. So I want to flip things around and be more proactive, instead of just sitting around waiting for the phone to ring. It's a big experiment and I haven't actually sold it yet, I'm still working on a pitch and getting some more written material together. I'm not a natural born salesman so I really need to talk myself into knocking on doors and picking up the phone. But that's the plan anyway. Gotta put in the hustle.

In regards to the law of attraction, that in itself is a fascinating concept, in a practical way, not a hocus pocus sort of way. I have seen it time after time in my own life. Two of the very first self-help books that I ever read were James Allen's "As A Man Thinketh", and Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich", both of which focus on this concept. Required reading in my opinion. I have read so many business books, but its the mindset stuff that seems to help the most.

Fascinating idea about perceived scarcity, that is absolutely true. If there was a practical way to implement that into our regular business I would love to see the effect. But I have no idea how you could actually do that as standard operating procedure.

I listened to a great podcast about the guys who invented Airbnb. They said that at the very beginning, everything was fine except for payments. People felt so awkward about handing over money to another person. That is when they tried moving all of the payments over to online, and it fixed the issue entirely. Running all of the payments through a trusted 3rd party made all of the difference. I have thought a lot about that in my own business. Even after doing a huge job for someone, it can still seem awkward at the end, when it comes time for money to exchange hands. I have accepted credit cards for years through my website but hardly anyone ever uses that option. Most people pay with cheques. I have had many people mention how weird it is for them to write me a cheque, they always say something like "you know, I haven't written a cheque in a couple years, I just don't use them anymore these days". And it's true, I don't really use cheques for anything in my own life either. What's the point of saying all that? Not sure. Just something that has been on my mind.

Anyway, hope I'm not derailing here, I could ramble on for hours about this stuff. Peace.
 
Yes Muggs, putting the scarcity thing into practice is implausible.

But (and Squish has had some good thoughts on this in the past) a small improvement in ones quoting can mean a much bigger number at the bottom of the page at the end of the year.

So how does one implement reverse psychology?

I've experimented with a few things, and in a previous life was a salesman.

1: Say you won't do it, not really your thing, bit too small for you, power lines too close, road too busy etc. you can even start walking back to the van.
Don't stop talking though! Just keep yakking, all friendly, maybe point out something nice in their garden, a magnolia in flower or suchlike, "how is yours so good? mine never flowers like that!" after a while (they're relaxed now, you're not selling) back to the tree and say "well I suppose if I was to do it it, it wouldn't be too bad, I could knock it off in a morning, let's say €600 (or whatever) I'll write you out a quote in case"

You're actually doing them a favour, how could they be so churlish as to not say yes on the spot?


If you try this on a job you really don't want, it'll help your authenticity.
 
Say you won't do it, not really your thing, bit too small for you, power lines too close, road too busy etc. you can even start walking back to the van.
Don't stop talking though! Just keep yakking, all friendly, maybe point out something nice in their garden, a magnolia in flower or suchlike, "how is yours so good? mine never flowers like that!" after a while (they're relaxed now, you're not selling) back to the tree and say "well I suppose if I was to do it, it wouldn't be too bad, I could knock it off in a morning, let's say €600 (or whatever) I'll write you out a quote in case"

Mick...you are one smooth operator. I think you have an easy way of interacting with folks...I might learn a lot from you...or get thrown in jail.:D
 
Anyone have much success with time based rates (hourly etc)for certain pruning jobs? I've had mixed results so far, unsure if I should press on with it.

If the client knows the rates, you usually get screwed.

So, don't let them know.
 
Not that smooth Gary! I wish.

One thing I did learn from being a salesman is to prepare for the visit before, stop around the corner, check you have all you need to hand, pen, quote book, diary etc. So that you're organiséd and pro looking as you get out, not scrabbling around under the seats for a pen or suchlike. (Very guilty of forgetting this)

After the bid, when you drive away think about how it went, whether you got it or not, what was good and if you lost the client (that moment when their eyes roll and they try to usher you off the property) what caused it.

Some you will never get, some you will always get no matter how well/badly you bid, but turning a swing voter can be a big plus.
 
I never openly try to close, maybe I find it a little distasteful (I was never the really Pro salesman sort, I could do it but I wasn't a natural)
I leave pregnant pauses, shuffle the papers around, make leaving noises, but never straight out try to close. I don't think people enjoy being hustled in their own houses.

Sometimes a conversational "so what do you think?"

No I think about it maybe I should a bit more.


Ps, Chris don't get the idea I'm a jedi of bidding or anything, but maybe us sharing bid tips and stories is as useful as rigging and felling advice, we're all in it to make a living after all.
 
I am a professional salesman. Proudly so. My function is to be a value add to the customer. If you know your bid is solid and has value for the customer, leaving them open to get another 3 bids from the sharks in the muddy waters doesn't help them. At the end of the day, trees make great decisions. Humans, not so much. Hence there are way wider margins to be had helping people make good decisions than helping trees make good decisions.

Mick is spot on about closing. No one likes to be closed but there are ways in leading your customer in that direction. That does include asking them if the timing is right. If you have given the bid, discussed the order of operations (including the bit where you tell them when payment will be due), and they're still with you, why not? They're questions, posture, etc let you know you're in the running, ask for the business, or ask to schedule the business, or ask if they have any questions/reservations.

Pressure to close or trying to close or closing at the right time is NOT ok.

Keep in mind that B2B is a relational sale. B2C (residential customers) is a transactional sale.
 
Good stuff Treetx (Nate?)

Asking if they have any questions/reservations is one I'm going to use.

Gets them talking, plus gives them them opportunity to say "when can you do it?"
 
I'd often use my schedule to close. I'd let them know how far out or thereabouts I am and flip over from the bid to my schedule. I swear, people love to see your schedule, and once they see all those other dates and times and names all booked they are dying to be on there too. I would nudge by mentioning how far out we are and that that can change at any time as there are lots of bids out and we book as they're confirmed. No holding any dates to 'think about it', a booked date is a confirmed job. About two weeks out is the sweet spot for this strategy. Far enough to know you are in demand but not so far as that you are never going to get there.
 
One chestnut I love is the attitude of "you can't trust him, he's a salesman..."

As if! You know who you can't trust? People who buy stuff. They somehow think that if they label someone as a sales person, then suddenly it is ok to be less than forthcoming.

With having said that, it has been my experience that if you ask for an objection, if they give you one it is never what they say. If they say price, then the objection is usually scope of the job or their confidence in your solution. If they say scope of the job, or their confidence in your solution, it is usually price.

In the line of what I sell (capital equipment between $50k and $300k) here is a secret Mr. Customer.... Be nice, be honest, and I'll give you a better deal. Works every time. If I catch you being less than forthcoming or not being nice because you think that is ok to do with sales people/vendors, then you are also going to be difficult after the sale - I have to charge more.

(rant over)
 
Interesting thoughts and practical ideas on selling and interacting with customers.

my dad retired as a salesman from general motors, selling parts (batteries, shocks, etc.) to jobbers around the mid-south.
he told me that a good salesman helps the customer to make sure they have what they need and sells them what they need.
per treetx, a good salesman is value added to the customer.
 
For me selling got a lot easier when I took the mindset of being there to help and not there to make numbers on a sales manager's score board. I've found that if I stay out of the results business and just focus on doing the next right thing, the results seem to take care of themselves.

For me, it meant being an independent 100% commission sales person. When I was directly employed, I would eventually have a manager who said, "eff the customer, I don't care if it is a good fit, we need the numbers, just get it sold." That sucks, it is not the sales guy I am. My talent isn't getting the needle in one side and out of the other before the realize they were pricked.

By being 100% commission for 3-4 different (non competing)companies at a time, I am more beholden to the customer than to any single company. Keep in mind, I am B2B sales so I don't deal with consumers but rather a consultative and relational sale. It is simple really, after I've not screwed the customer with one product, it is easy to sell them the next product.

Making the jump to 100% commission with an extremely variable income is hard for some folks.... but if you did treework for a decade, you are likely no stranger to an extremely variable income. :P
 
Some really valuable advice here guys, thanks. I don't like a pushy close when I'm looking for a product or service either but I can see how a subtle nudge in that direction is the way to go.
I've fallen into the habit of pricing larger jobs after the visit (same day still), I explain that after the amount of labor and time required has been confirmed a price can be provided. I find it much easier to work out the numbers when I can concentrate rather than be doing sums whilst they are standing there staring...
 
Yes, good advice.

Verbiage, readily at hand helps.

I say something to the effect of there being a lot of ways to skin a cat, and very managable, no worries. Tree care and dismantles are like a game of chess or checkers depending on how you want to play it. Personally, I'll try to think and use technique to make my way around unnecessary hard work. I have a solid handle on the scope of work, and your concerns and values in mind, so I'll go turn the project around in my head a bit, crunch some numbers, write up a proposal, and knock on the door to discuss it.
 
Nate, would you explain the meanings of those terms, such as transactional and relational sales, and the implications?

What is different about selling $50k in equipment to a company versus a large apartment complex that is a big ticket item versus a homeowner, who may have big to them ticket item?
 
Sean I interpreted transactional to mean "strictly business" where relational means developing a working relationship. Like as in homeowner clients will lie to you all day everyday but when your dealing with a property manager you can generally count on a higher degree of transparency and cooperation. I know the question wasn't directed at me however this week has really made me think about the relationships I have with certain clients and that many of them espouse a sense of loyalty and honesty however its highly exaggerated- its been liberating to better understand this relationship.
 
Yes, good advice.

Verbiage, readily at hand helps.

I say something to the effect of there being a lot of ways to skin a cat, and very managable, no worries. Tree care and dismantles are like a game of chess or checkers depending on how you want to play it. Personally, I'll try to think and use technique to make my way around unnecessary hard work. I have a solid handle on the scope of work, and your concerns and values in mind, so I'll go turn the project around in my head a bit, crunch some numbers, write up a proposal, and knock on the door to discuss it.

Do you mean you go back to the clients later? (after you have left the premises so to speak)
 
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