hinge du jour

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I guess that hopefully the skidsteer was here again to save the day. Without it, this tree wouldn't have fallen on its own, or if it did, anywhere where it didn't have to.

You blind yourself I you really believe that you manage a pool of special techniques. I don't argue with the special techniques, but with the idea of managing.
I see here almost no control at all.

Put all the care you can in what you do and forget the "that will be good enough like that", as said my grand father. Actually, that won't.


Gabe can be proud of his work though, nicely done.
 
Why do you come around, Daniel?

Honest to god, when I saw your thread come up, I thought, "huh, Daniel has been around lately, but not being a dick. That's cool."

But then...
 
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  • #131
I AM happy to have an intelligent discussion.... nobody seems to want that or maybe they just can't! Too proud to ask about what they don't understand... If you want to know what's going on just ask... There is a reason for everything.... even if that reason is a mistake or a shortcut... and I love to have pictures and video to dissect the unexpected happenings and see what might be learned and applied for control in another scenario.. IN the mean time if anyone else wanted to post pics of their hinges this might become a valuable thread. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. (when was the last time you heard that one). That applies to falling trees. Good to have a few tricks in your bag, but even more important to have a complete understanding of the principles and the limitations of the tree/faller/equipment, so you know what you can and can't get away with..

Not everybody is an expert... I remember when Carl was a posting pics of his high school sweetheart and didn't know what a hinge was... and Stig had the audacity to criticized Pat Lacey's cut on that Humboldt, when Stig doesn't even use a humboldt, and Pat's video is a example of pure mastery. And Rocky can't even tell which was the tree was supposed to fall..

So get off your high horses .... There are a lot of lurkers around here trying to learn something, but too afraid to ask because of the culture around here...
 
I AM happy to have an intelligent discussion....


I do not believe that is true. There was a secret cut a few pages back which I asked about and you explicitly refused to respond. There is a boatload of folks here who are heavily into cutting trees and most of them seem to have an issue with you. Mirror indeed.

Sir. I am on bended knee here. I respectfully request information regarding your norway spruce cut. I would be most grateful if you would explain what went into making that stump. And the pop and drop oak shown somewhere here, curious about that too- why the need for the skid steer pull and how it dropped flat. I'm guessing mismatch cuts with an inverted shelf instead of a lip shelf.

You have been duly begged for discussion. Sir.
 
Most people tend to rave about the overall culture here. :drink:
 
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  • #142
Agreed, Butch...that is pushing our tolerance.

There it is right there... perfect example..... man says something that rubs you wrong and y'all all throw a little tantrum..
And to you Butch. it kinda pisses you off cause its kinda true.. otherwise you'd laugh it off.. I would say that TB is no better... and AS , at least the last time I was there, was way worse.... but better than them doesn't make it right, or perfect, or without room for improvement... You boys just SEEM to get a long better here because you're in a tight clique.... Busy patting each other on the back for how good you are. When someone doesn't tow the party line or threatens the pecking order, then people get bent out shape and start trying to throw some weight around.... I AM just telling it like I see it.. Y'all can throw the all the weight you got...

Dr. B says "our tolerance"... who is the "our".... It's your little clique... And it's not all bad... I like to show the technical stuff here because y'all have a FAR BETTER understanding of the principles ... Can't take that away... still y'all's "greater than thou" attitude and rude jabs leave a lot of lurkers peeking through the cracks.... Always room for improvement! And of course that's not everybody... lots of great tree men here that act with kindness and humility. They know who they are.. (obviously not me)

Alright I AM ready to drop the subject. I much prefer to discussing those cuts. be right back
 
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  • #143
And the pop and drop oak shown somewhere here, curious about that too- why the need for the skid steer pull and how it dropped flat. I'm guessing mismatch cuts with an inverted shelf instead of a lip shelf..

You got it exactly....bypass cut.. very slight bypass, maybe one inch, and that's a good term for it , "inverted shelf"... It was the last cut before I needed to move the bucket truck to get the other side over the wires. I was hoping to match the cuts perfectly and let it drop under its own weight, but when I realized I had made a slight bypass and she still didn't go I made the call to use a tag line and not fool around with the cut.. with the inverted step or shelf I was concerned about saw snatch. With a piece that heavy dropping so instantly, there would have been no chance save the saw..

And I didn't cut a notch just to shave a little time and didn't want it rotating and taking a funny bounce with the truck very near the DZ... I had to park it in tight to reach the top, leaving a tight DZ. In retrospect there is a better cut that could have been used, but would have been difficult to cut so close to the trunk, or I could have been a little more precise with matching the cuts, but I like the silver lining.... That vid is sweet!

And this is a great example of the flexibility the skid steer offers... Quick , easy, reliable pulling power, from any direction is a real game changer..
 

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  • #144
I respectfully request information regarding your norway spruce cut..

That was an interesting cut..... I had taken most of the side-weight (limbs) off so it was a pretty straight stick, with just a little side weight..

The top of the tree was also gone, bombed out to fit the remainder in the DZ, and there may have been some backlean, but nothing too crazy....

High pull line at the top of the spar, with the stump grinder pulling, and not the regular op..... And there was a good bit of play in the DZ, so accuracy was not required....

SO the notch was made to the lay, which is as shown in the picture.. Notice the bent fiber on the row on the right... that was the hinge, and was bent as it went over... The row of fibers on the left is the......................................., actually it doesn't have a name just yet, so let's call it a slow release perpendicular back-strap...

That was accidentally formed as follows:
The bar was too short to make the full length of the hinge... rather than have to switch sides to reach around with the saw to cut the left side of the backs-cut, I like to remove part of the it on trees where that don;t have side weight and therefore don;t need the extra control from the full hinge. SO I reach around from the font of the notch and take off as much of the side of the hinge as needed to make sure the bar is longer than the hinge... And in this case I misjudged the distance needed and came up just a little short... leaving that perpendicular strap to hold...

What do you call that side cut taking out the far side of the hinge... an intentional dutchman... however its used simply for convenience and NOT to steer the tree... it can and will steer the tree off the lay, if left only on one side. I learned that lesson the hard way... So to make sure the tree does not go off the lay I will cut a similar sized dutchman on the near side.... this creates a balance, though the dutchmans' don't have to mach exactly.. the most important thing is to make sure the tree doesn't have enough side weight to cause the now severely compromised hinge to fail. Obviously using the skid steer for pulling is going to allow me to leave a fatter hinge that can somewhat make up for its greatly reduced length... but this cut is mostly just used for quick easy falls of straight sticks... Any question about losing the tree to side weight and I'll take the time to cut the hinge up proper from both sides. This falling cut was made with a 25" bar..

I will often use the same technique from the bucket when using a 16" bar.... It's particularly useful from the bucket when it's not just a matter of convenience, as the bucket can't reach the far side of the cut, and the DZs are not so forgiving..

On this one however I accidentally came up short on the far dutchy and ended up having to pull A LOT harder than I expected. The regular op would have known that the cut wasn't finished by feeling how much force was on the rope. But the new guy doesn't have a feel for it. After a minute and seeing how far he had moved without the tree budging, it was clear the cut had an issue... SO I took a little more out of the regular back strap.. I had misjudged that one too, as I thought it was finished, but obviously from the pictire it wasn't.. It didn;t take muc more cutting though and she let go, BUT she moved ever so slowly even with a lot of force on a high pull line..... the tree stopped at about 45 degress, and wouldn't move until those perpendicular fibers were completely torn out.. That was pretty cool to watch.. no video though.

That got me thinking about possibly using a perpendicular back strap to give some additional control, maybe slow the fall, or keep the fall in line wit the perpendicular strap when more control is needed to fight side weight or something.. The wheels are still turning
 

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So I am reading that the cut is called "I'm too lazy" to finish the cut. Maybe call it the "new guy" on the skid steers fault. I see it as an unfinished cut that could have gone badly with new guy yanking and a tree not moving. I don't see much to discuss other than making a proper cut before pulling.
 
This one I like to call "the proper" hinge. Image 1.jpg
And this the "tight quarters" there is another tree out of frame that I had to bore into the felled tree to avoid cutting into that's why the slight acute taper on the one side. Image.jpg
 
I do not believe that is true. There was a secret cut a few pages back which I asked about and you explicitly refused to respond. There is a boatload of folks here who are heavily into cutting trees and most of them seem to have an issue with you. Mirror indeed.

Sir. I am on bended knee here. I respectfully request information regarding your norway spruce cut. I would be most grateful if you would explain what went into making that stump. And the pop and drop oak shown somewhere here, curious about that too- why the need for the skid steer pull and how it dropped flat. I'm guessing mismatch cuts with an inverted shelf instead of a lip shelf.

You have been duly begged for discussion. Sir.

I wrote a similar response yesterday but then deleted it.

Intelligent discussion? Daniel, as soon as anyone disagrees with your viewpoint you resort to name calling and suggesting other don't know what they are doing or talking about.

You ask for intelligent discussion yet don't see to be able to entertain anything other than your own views.
 
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  • #148
If someone expresses an opposing view in a respectful way, just trying to hash out a subject... then I'll respond in kind.... but invariably there's some asshole that wants to get mouthy... In this case it's flushcut... I take an hour or more, when I could be sleeping, to provide a detailed unambiguous explanation of an advanced technique that no-one has ever seen before, per request..... It would be nice is someone had the coutesy to say thank you", but instead this guy basically calls me lazy sideways... So you;re gonna hear it... I wish I was a saint... still working on that...


I've done that OVER AND OVER and OVER on this site... the discussions on the step cut and why stump shot is not needed in suburban arb are good example...



So I am reading that the cut is called "I'm too lazy" to finish the cut. Maybe call it the "new guy" on the skid steers fault. I see it as an unfinished cut that could have gone badly with new guy yanking and a tree not moving. I don't see much to discuss other than making a proper cut before pulling.
 
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  • #149
Basically... here it is..

It's called the mirrored dutchman (just named it this morning) Its a technique used for cutting with a short bar on trees where limited control is needed from the hinge... basically trees with little or no side lean/side-weight.

Benefits... its quick and easy and allows the faller to stay on one side of the tree, which is particularly useful when applied from the bucket, where mobility may be limited. Put that one in your bag of tricks
 

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