"Triangle" Method of Falling Head Leaners to Prevent Barber Chair?

rfwoody

Treehouser
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
800
Location
North Mississippi
There is a technique for cutting head leaners in Douglas Dent's book and the British Columbia "Fallers' and Buckers'" Handbook" where, after the face is cut..... 2 side cuts are made which form a triangle, then the final cut is made like a normal back cut from the back of the tree toward the hinge.

Below is my crude attempt at diagramming what I've seen in these books:

How does this differ in effectiveness or safety or ease of use, etc. vs. using a bore cut on head leaning trees to prevent a barber chair?

Does anyone have any comments on how, where, etc. this "triangle" method would be used vs. using the bore cut?

Triangle_Method_for_falling_forward_leaners2.jpg
 
I AM pretty comfortable bore cutting and therefore would use the bore before the triangle method, because its easy for me and because it makes sense that the bore cut takes out more of the fibers that could cause the tree to split and BBC.... This might be an easier cut for someone that isn't trained or practiced in the bore cut... Might be quicker too, just to use as a little bit of insurance on a mild head leaner, but on anything real heavy front lean, I'd caution against using it, as there are still a lot of fibers left that might cause it to still BBC.. Coos Bay , bore or other yet to be revealed cuts may be better.

Bore cut was popularized by Game of Logging (GOL) which I believe came after Dent published his book, so bore cut may not have been much on the map back then. The old west coast guys like Jerry B could likely correct or confirm that.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Very interesting, murphy4trees. I had wondered about that. Thanks!

Have recently heard of the Coos Bay method, but don't really understand it yet... all in due time.
 
It is a very useful cut for small diameter stems, that are too small to bore cut & can be used on compromised & decayed wood - obviously with care. A simple & very underused cut imho
 
but on anything real heavy front lean, I'd caution against using it, as there are still a lot of fibers left that might cause it to still BBC.. Coos Bay , bore or other yet to be revealed cuts may be better.
Almost the opposite Daniel. The bore cut sets a hinge, which in the worst trees sets a fracture point for the stem to split down. The twin gobs leave a triangle of wood, which is easy to sever & the gradual release probably helps too. The mechanics are very similar to the coos bay cut if you think of it.
 
Am I being a bit dense here? but isnt the direction of fall in the diagram above the wrong way round.?

I.e. the direction of fall is towards the point of the triangle not the red bit marked notch.

I haven't seen the Dent book or much US Literature apart from Jerry's book.
 
I use that cut most of the time on large laterals that i was to leave the cut flat and not grab or pinch the saw. Quicker for me and no need to notch it unless i want a bit of direction.
 
I use that cut most of the time on large laterals that i was to leave the cut flat and not grab or pinch the saw. Quicker for me and no need to notch it unless i want a bit of direction.

This. I use a less precise version of this but do it all in one cut, never pulling the saw out of the cut. I start by reaching over the stem and starting my cut vertically on the far side (sawdust flying in my face). Then after I cut in a bit I roll the saw over the top and then vertically on the near side. When the center uncut strip is narrow enough I roll the tip down and burn through the cut.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
.... isnt the direction of fall in the diagram above the wrong way round.?

I.e. the direction of fall is towards the point of the triangle not the red bit marked notch.

I haven't seen the Dent book or much US Literature apart from Jerry's book.

haha, you guys know 1000 times more about this stuff than I do.... but "according to the book" the lean is *toward* the notch/face.
I think my diagram was too small and bad.
I tried to make the diagram bigger and better but couldn't figure out how! :)
What the diagram was *supposed* to represent was the tree leaning to the right and the back cut (cut #4 .... (should be cut #5 counting 2 cuts for the face)) begins on the left, in the back and moves to the right toward the face... toward the direction of the fall.

I have never tried it because I was afraid of not understanding it and winding up with a barber chair.
 
Am I being a bit dense here? but isnt the direction of fall in the diagram above the wrong way round.?

I.e. the direction of fall is towards the point of the triangle not the red bit marked notch.

I thought the same thing
 
haha, you guys know 1000 times more about this stuff than I do.... but "according to the book" the lean is *toward* the notch/face.
I think my diagram was too small and bad.
I tried to make the diagram bigger and better but couldn't figure out how! :)
What the diagram was *supposed* to represent was the tree leaning to the right and the back cut (cut #4 .... (should be cut #5 counting 2 cuts for the face)) begins on the left, in the back and moves to the right toward the face... toward the direction of the fall.

I have never tried it because I was afraid of not understanding it and winding up with a barber chair.

Yes, in that particular cut, the triangle cut; the notch is toward or hair off the lean favor.
In a Coos Bay. No notch, it is reversed. No notch because a heavy head lean will prevent you from putting one in and mitigates barber chair.
 
but "according to the book" the lean is *toward* the notch/face.
I think my diagram was too small and bad.
That's it, the lean, the lay and the notch "look "all to the same point. I just verified in the Dent's book, page 103.
It's supposed to give less wood to cut at once on the back, so, speeding the cut.
But I think that's a little tricky and you can just get the opposite of your goal. Because you need to cut the 3 kerfs perfectly in the same plane. If not, the chain has to cut again part of the already cut wood. Worse, if the chain is only partly engaged in the previous kerf(s), you can get a lot of drag/jam which slows the cut even more.
You can very well win nothing, or loose it actually.
That's perhaps not a big deal for a pro faller, but for a less trained treeman, that could.
 
Almost the opposite Daniel. The bore cut sets a hinge, which in the worst trees sets a fracture point for the stem to split down. The twin gobs leave a triangle of wood, which is easy to sever & the gradual release probably helps too. The mechanics are very similar to the coos bay cut if you think of it.

I forgot to put in the disclaimer, that I was just making it all up ;)
I have never seen or tried that triangle cut... read about it online a while back...
so I couldn't say for sure what the differences are...
honestly the point above doesn't make much sense to me, but if you say so and have used it, I won't argue, and bow out here as gracefully as possible

EDIT....
The diagram being backwards is what confused me... makes more sense with the triangle pointing towards the notch
 
Almost the opposite Daniel. The bore cut sets a hinge, which in the worst trees sets a fracture point for the stem to split down. The twin gobs leave a triangle of wood, which is easy to sever & the gradual release probably helps too. The mechanics are very similar to the coos bay cut if you think of it.

Another example of the difference between falling nasty old snags in the woods and doing residential tree work.. We rarely run into anything that nasty
 
I would love to see video or a better diagram of this cut. Actually 💡 perhaps. So by cutting the triangle you are removing more of the compression wood that would cause barber chair similar to a bore cut? Don't know if I worded that correctly so please be gentle 🙈


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Here's the first time I tried it that really mattered. I got instructed ex posto facto that I was too tentative in the back cut...if I had been more aggressive and "chased" the back cut I think it would not have stalled on me.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fSLTIBod_bw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
This is post #76 from the first thread Burnham referenced...info below posted by Jerry Beranek. I had missed the part about using wedges (if needed) before:

Alders are notoriously bad. The wood is so clear and splits so darn easy. You maybe should have bound that tree, Jed. But in any case if deciding to use the coos bay you need to get the side cuts more than a third the way in, or just figure the more the better. Ideally until the strap left holding the tree,,,, fails to hold it.

People tend to be very nervous using the coos bay on a heavy head leaner for the first time. Rightfully so too. And I think it makes them feel overly anxious to release the tree prematurely. As long as the tree is standing,,,, keep cutting the sides. And..... in trees of size be sure to use a wedge to keep the cuts open. You really do not want the tree to shift over to any side. Because it can cause the tree to twist off the stump rather than break off of it.

Believe me, there is no single and sure solution to tripping all the head leaners a sawyer is going to encounter. Because of the high pressure and tension forces involved the stumps are always going to be more prone to failing in some manner or form before we can execute any cut the way we want. Either by twisting, splitting or pulling the roots. It is the nature of a head leaner to do so.

There are alternative methods to dealing with head leaners. As some members here have pointed out.

As for myself, I've reamed through the pressure side of some head leaners up to three quarters the way through and tripped them by severing the remaining tension wood. Just like the tree were a big limb. No opening cut about it. Pops the tree right off the stump very clean. However,, this is a risky method to use in anything but a hard leaner because there is no stump shot.

In other cases I have worked a face cut deep enough into the tree until the remaining tension wood folded and eased the tree down quite easily. No release cut about it. On good ground the method is a little bit safer, but it does take more time because you have to whittle the face in a little at a time and keep cleaning it out.

With either of these alternatives the method puts a sawyer beside the tree to execute the cuts. And on steep ground with a head leaner that could be very unsafe. And too, with either alternative the chance of getting the saw stuck is much higher,,, if you're not quick on the draw with your reaming or whittling . The CB on the other hand puts a sawyer on the high side to execute the cut and the chance of getting the saw stuck is much less.

You have to remember too that the conventional method of using a face and boring the back cut increases the amount of pressure and tension forces in the wood left holding a head leaner, and that in itself can bring on its own additional problems and risks.

In any case, more than anything else, our safety and success comes down to understanding the forces of leverage, tension and pressure and how it bears on the stems of a tree. With a thorough understanding of this we should be able to figure the appropriate action to take. Which at times means not doing anything at all.

I probably could/should have used a wedge in my video Coos Bay. I had injected some side lean/compression by pulling the top sideways before felling.
 
As Gary notes, there are some great nuggets in these archived threads. It takes some digging, often, but it can pay dividends for your time.
 
Back
Top