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Thread: MS 200t problems

  1. #31
    Mac Daddy Sponsor Al Smith's Avatar
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    As I said before nobody mentioned it .However if you look at a well ran 020 or 200 you can see what looks much like carbon right up next to the clutch side seal .That has to be hard on the seal if it does have some traverse movement .

    Before they came out with after market cylinders and pistons e bay was full of complete crankcases ,with crankshafts from burned up saws for 50 bucks a pop .Fact I bought one just for the case to repair one that leaked oil .
    Those seals are not the best design but as tiny as they are I'm not sure what else would work .I'd say the best thing to do if you own one is about the first indication the saw is starting to lean out is at least replace the clutch side seal after all that carbon is cleaned off the shaft .Cheap insurance if nothing else .It's probably a 15-20 minute job on the clutch side .

  2. #32
    TreeHouser Magnus's Avatar
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    There is something I don't get here. Crank should sit in bearing, bearing in case.. No movement!
    There is no fiber, plastic or other washer inside bearing in crankcase.
    Piston rod is another thing. It should have side play.

    Blame German saws all you want but they are all the same. They all need crank to stay put and case to be tight.

    If you have carbon in bearings and seals inside seal... The two stroke oil sucks!
    If you have carbon like material outside seal on clutch side, bar oil and service sucks!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Smith View Post
    As I said before nobody mentioned it .However if you look at a well ran 020 or 200 you can see what looks much like carbon right up next to the clutch side seal .That has to be hard on the seal if it does have some traverse movement .

    Before they came out with after market cylinders and pistons e bay was full of complete crankcases ,with crankshafts from burned up saws for 50 bucks a pop .Fact I bought one just for the case to repair one that leaked oil .
    Those seals are not the best design but as tiny as they are I'm not sure what else would work .I'd say the best thing to do if you own one is about the first indication the saw is starting to lean out is at least replace the clutch side seal after all that carbon is cleaned off the shaft .Cheap insurance if nothing else .It's probably a 15-20 minute job on the clutch side .
    As I stated, I have rebuilt MANY 200T and I don't remember ever seeing a carbon like buildup on shaft, only oily sawdust.
    What is this buildup and where does it come from?

  4. #34
    Treehouser Sponsor Skwerl2's Avatar
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    Clutch dust combined with crystallized grease from greasing the sprocket roller bearing. Technically it is a form of carbon, but not from internal combustion.
    -Brian

  5. #35
    Mac Daddy Sponsor Al Smith's Avatar
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    You are all forgetting it's a roller bearing not a ball bearing .A ball bearing by it's design will have provisions for thrust,side movement,a roller bearing needs a thrust plate of some sort .Here's a couple of pictures of an old bearing.I had thought it was a seven roller but it's an 8 roller .You can see the fiber washers which are worn out .It's an open cage for the rollers the only thing that prevents side thrust are those washers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0125[1].jpg   DSCN0129[1].jpg  

  6. #36
    Mac Daddy Sponsor Al Smith's Avatar
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    I've got a couple of 200T crankshafts some place if I can find them .If I can and if they haven't been cleaned of the black stuff I'll put a picture on .

  7. #37
    TreeHouser Magnus's Avatar
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    No, not forgetting... In all bearings there is parts that together make the bearing.

    I repeat:
    It still should not be any play unless its in need of replacing.
    If you have carbon in bearings and seals inside seal... The two stroke oil sucks!
    If you have carbon like material outside seal on clutch side, bar oil and service sucks!

  8. #38
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    "It still should not be any play unless its in need of replacing."
    I respectably disagree with your above sentence. ALL bearings must have a certain amount of clearance. When any bearing heats up, clearance becomes less and if there is no clearance, bearing will be damaged.
    I still don't totally understand the "carbon buildup"?
    Personally, I do not change parts that are not damaged or worn. They have proven themselves.
    Over the years, I have replaced items, not necessarily related to gasoline engines, and they failed!
    This is especially true today with so many low quality replacement parts. Even some OEM parts might not be manufactured by them.

  9. #39
    Mac Daddy Sponsor Al Smith's Avatar
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    Evidently there is either a lack of communication or a misunderstanding .First of all I never implied there was any carbon in the bearings .Where pray tell did that idea come from? What I did say is there appeared to be a carbon like build up on the crankshaft stub ,not the danged bearing .
    Yes with good bearings there is very limited end play as there should be .If they wear out of course there will be ,does that make sense? Just because I'm a nice guy tell ya what I'm going to do,post a picture of a brand new 200T crank bearing .Decide for yourself if it has thrust washers or not ..Now anybody who disagrees those are not thrust washers then explain exactly what they are ,they sure as the dickens aren't seals . http://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g...NxH/s-l225.jpg

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Smith View Post
    Evidently there is either a lack of communication or a misunderstanding .First of all I never implied there was any carbon in the bearings .Where pray tell did that idea come from? What I did say is there appeared to be a carbon like build up on the crankshaft stub ,not the danged bearing .
    It could be from:
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Smith View Post
    However if you look at a well ran 020 or 200 you can see what looks much like carbon right up next to the clutch side seal .That has to be hard on the seal if it does have some traverse movement .
    This is what my following reply was for:
    If you have carbon in bearings and seals inside seal... The two stroke oil sucks!
    If you have carbon like material outside seal on clutch side, bar oil and service sucks!
    If you have a axial play that you can feel and measure with tens of mm's the bearings are either not sitting on crank or housing or they are gone and should be replaced.
    I replaced bearings on many on 020's. I have 30 or so in parts here for all kinds of reasons. A couple good cases with good bearings I can easy swap when custemer wait.
    Haven't replaces as many on 200's, perhaps on 20.. Usually main rod bearing is gone so its junk anyway..

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