Top n' Flop: Removing a tall, skinny, dead Ash

TreeMuggs

Treehouser
Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Messages
198
Location
Southwestern Ontario, Canada
For your entertainment:

<div style="position:relative;height:0;padding-bottom:56.25%"><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ofsqBkMyWNU?ecver=2" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" style="position:absolute;width:100%;height:100%;left:0" allowfullscreen></iframe></div>
 
I am going to point out a few things that could have been done better, IMHO. Muscle memory and repetition of actions done correctly are strong and potentially life-saving habits. Even though you were setting a non life support rope, I would have preferred seeing that bowline dressed and set much more deliberately, out of habit.
You went through the trouble of setting a pull line for the top but thought it unnecessary to use it as a safety for the spur climb. A missed opportunity in the safety department regardless of how comfortable you are on spurs.
After you reached the first limb, you choked off your climbing line in a DdRT configuration under the limb. A better choice would have been to set it above the union. Simply doing so would have given you more options if the need arose.
Everyone in the business by now should be aware of the quality and usefulness of the available helmet communication systems currently on the market. They are as potent a safety aide as a hard hat.
I am not trying to win any safety police merit badges with this post, it is just that all your other postings are so good and thorough, with a strong training base, that these omissions jumped out at me.
 
Muggs I love your stuff man.

Canopy anchors are a rapidly evolving field. If retrieval from the ground is planned, current thinking leans toward a textile connection with a mechanical fair-lead below, or, better yet, girth hitching a ring as the primary. If retrieval isn't a concern, running bowline is perfectly adequate, though all the trainers I've spoken with will recommend the Yosemite tie off to finish.

The concern of course being during retrieval, especially after a few re-directs, you could easily burn through the textile loop while pulling it all out. . .

Please keep them coming.

Cheers.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
I am going to point out a few things that could have been done better, IMHO. Muscle memory and repetition of actions done correctly are strong and potentially life-saving habits. Even though you were setting a non life support rope, I would have preferred seeing that bowline dressed and set much more deliberately, out of habit.
You went through the trouble of setting a pull line for the top but thought it unnecessary to use it as a safety for the spur climb. A missed opportunity in the safety department regardless of how comfortable you are on spurs.
After you reached the first limb, you choked off your climbing line in a DdRT configuration under the limb. A better choice would have been to set it above the union. Simply doing so would have given you more options if the need arose.
Everyone in the business by now should be aware of the quality and usefulness of the available helmet communication systems currently on the market. They are as potent a safety aide as a hard hat.
I am not trying to win any safety police merit badges with this post, it is just that all your other postings are so good and thorough, with a strong training base, that these omissions jumped out at me.

DMc, first of all, much respect. I greatly respect the opinions of my elders in this trade. I acknowledge that I am still, in many respects, a total greenhorn, and I hope to always consider myself in need of training.

I would first point out that I totally agree with you, things could ALWAYS have been done better, in this video, and most likely, in every other video out there. This isn't an ISA video after all. This is not some staged thing that I wanted to post to show everyone else how they should be doing things. I am not trying to show anyone else a better way of working, I am simply trying to show my apprentice how to get stuff done in the field, when it matters, and I thought it might be entertaining to show it to all of you at the same time. That being said, I am hoping to clear up a few things:

1. I am wondering when it became unsafe to spur up a tree with just a lanyard, I wasn't aware of that change in safety policy.
2. I was just spurring up 30 ft and coming down, I'm not sure why I would have needed to set some kind of advanced climbing anchor up top for my climbing line. I am, by nature, a climbing minimalist, I want to use the least amount of gear that gets the job done.
3. Helmet-based comm. systems are amazing, I totally agree with you, I should try to integrate some of that technology into my old-school aluminum hat. The absence of such a system does not, in and of itself, mean that anything I do is inherently unsafe.

If the safety police are that concerned with my work practices, they should consider themselves lucky that I didn't film how I descended from that tree - a munter hitch on that tag-line that I was using to pull over the spar - it being my old climb line that I use only for light-duty rigging purposes. As I was told in a seminar years ago - climbing lines and rigging lines are like wives and girlfriends - may they never meet. Keep in mind that I would never do that on a line if I didn't know the history of it, nor would I teach that technique to anyone who was unaware of the potential risks.

When I said on my website that "I am not “Captain Safety” as so many of the authorities in the trade purport to be. I am an actual, working, production arborist and tree climber", what I meant was not that I am unsafe in my work practices, but rather that my opinion has always been that nobody is more concerned about your own safety than you are.

Again, I am truly thankful for any and all feedback, it is amazing to interact with other professionals, many of whom have far more experience than I do. I am thankful for the opportunity, and this forum is an amazing way of sharing. I have a lot more videos in the works and I plan to continue sharing them. I make them for my apprentice but if anyone else can benefit, then I am very happy.

I don't write any of this to stir up controversy, I have been aware of the safety police brigade on forums since my first post back in 2009 about the Daisy Chain hitch, which is still not an "approved" knot, and yet I use it everyday. And those same people are still teaching the clove hitch with 2 half hitches to new recruits, makes me wonder...


A bit more about me, from my website;

My thoughts on the Clove hitch


Cheers,
 
Thanks Muggs, I sat here and practiced my knot tying as you and James were tying them.

I noticed you use a humbolt when topping and a conventional undercut when falling the stem. Is there a reason for that or is that just the way you do it?
 
Less push back on spar with Humboldt cut. imhi
Which translates into less motion.(going for a ride)
I don't know if I'm making any since??
 
To the concerns abaut the clove hitch. First of all I was told to use it as a standard rigging knot. As I got more expiriencd I startet to use a running bow line for most things. What do you use when tying a log in a negativ rigging scenario? Is there something better than a running bow line with a half hitch ?
 
Patrick, thanks for the kind words. Having done something for a very long time, though, is no guarantee that a person has an accurate understanding of that subject. Therefore, temper that respect and listening to your gut instincts. Does the statement stand up to closer scrutiny. Misconceptions and bad habits are rampant and constantly on display by many that have been in this line of work for decades.

With few exceptions, the times I have been injured or had something go wrong, I have been able to retrace things to a point I could have avoided that mishap by changing one or more components. More often than not, that change required an additional step or tool to something I was confident in doing, and considered, safe enough. Tree work requires the acceptance that every job, every tree and every day will be different than those that came before. Allow for changes, not only in your tools and methods, but in your beliefs of what is safe. My entire career has been that of a production arborist. I don't have time for things that are superfluous. The tools and techniques I now use bear little resemblance to those I started with. Change can be very good.

OK, enough BS. On your site you state it was inspired in the efforts to teach your apprentice and others. It is a good site and you have done well. But by doing so, you have accepted a burden of responsibility. Videos like this, even of a fun and simple content will take on more importance to some. We are monkeys. Monkey see, monkey do. When you tie a knot, finish it. Always! If that knot could be used for life support make sure that is taken into consideration.

Spurring up a tree with just a flipline is perfectly safe, until it isn't. A choice an inexperienced climber will have a hard time with. You had already gone through the effort of setting a line. It would have been a great time to show the safety and simplicity of a self belay system.

I know there is a lot of resistance in the plaid shirt crowd on the space ranger style arborist helmets. Maybe give some thought to one, it will make you look 10 years younger. :)
 
Just to further safety you up a bit, :D and bring up your infamous hard hat again. In BC a metal hard hat would be a no go for residential Treework. Is it CSA approved for the application you are using it for?

I could care less and I'm not sure if Ontario is different or not but something to consider while you are training others and compiling all your good info and vids.

I was always told that metal helmets are dangerous in true crushing injuries to the head. In a decade plus of logging they were not allowed anywhere I worked.
 
I always wanted one until I got one and wore it in the Louisiana sunshine. I could literally feel the heat it absorbed transferring to the top of my head.
 
All kidding and heritage aside. IMO a metal hardhat has no place in residential work. Even if you don't work clearance it's unlikely you are never around power.

But safety lecture is over for me. Rock on with your flying saucer hats. :P
 
I'm a muff and screen guy myself.

But we're well off topic now. Surprise, surprise.

TreeMuggs good on ya for recording and sharing and taking the time to teach an apprentice in a worthy fashion. :thumbup:
 
A 540 lanyard wrap provided fall protection in the even of a gaff-out, and requires no extra gear, and very minimal extra effort.

I will rappel down on any old pull rope I have, IF I keep my life-support lanyard and my spurs on. Good, easy back-up. Already have a biner for the munter hitch on my saddle/ climbing system.
 
Thank you Jerry! I love my old hat and will continue to use it. They will have to pry it off my head...... :/:

All kidding aside if you actually take a solid hit they are, in fact, going to pry it off your head. Maybe upgrade and don't do that to your family. You have put yourself in a position where young climbers are going to mimic you, and a tin pot is by no means the safest thing out there.
 
Back
Top