Problems cutting hard maple...

Cuttinstuff

Treehouser
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
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35
Location
Cental Wisconsin
This fall I was helping cut firewood in an area that contains hard maple (no hard maple around my property) and ran into problems.

I was cutting with my little Echo CS-352 and found that it was really chattering in the cut and then it would just stop the chain dead. It seems like the teeth of the chain had embedded themselves into the wood and just stuck there! It didn't just bog down and stop cutting - it was like a dead stop. I had to jerk around pretty hard just to get the bar out of the cut. This happened time after time to the point where it was almost impossible to continue.

I thought that maybe I just needed more power so I tried my Husky 345 - this saw has a modded muffler and normally cuts very well. Same exact problem - except with the added power, I REALLY had problems pulling it out after it stuck itself into the wood.

The chains were both very sharp and properly tensioned and neither one had yet had the rakers lowered from stock. I found that the problem was not quite as bad if I cut with the top of the bar but it was still not good - but that was the only way I was able to finish the cut at all.

As soon as I moved to - say an oak - no problems at all with either saw.

What was going on there and how to I avoid it?

Thanks,

Paul
 
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  • #3
Hi Peter,

I did have my 372XP with full skip on a 24 inch bar but heck it was only a 12 inch tree and it was a long walk back to road... That seemed like way more saw than I would need for what we had expected to run into.
 
Sometimes you just run into an exceptionally hard piece. Something bone dry. Try to keep the R's up and vary the pressure in the cut to find the sweet spot.
 
Reaming the kerf frequently might help a little. A wedge in the kerf kept really tight might have helped a bit too, once well into the buck.

I've had a similar experience once with an old growth Douglas fir, of all things. Almost impossible to bore cut. Turned out that once I had it bucked into firewood lengths, the splitting was also very difficult...grain all twisted and stringy. Just a funny growth pattern I guess, unusual in my experience.
 
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  • #6
Okay, thanks for the input guys.

I don't know... the only other time I've had a saw chattering as bad as it was in these maples was early on when I tried filing the rakers down (and didn't have a clue what I was doing...lol) I had them too low and that caused the saw to chatter about like this did.

In this case it wasn't a matter of the bar being pinched. In fact it was even doing it as I was just trying to clean up a notch that didn't line up very well with my first cut. The notch was already open but as soon as those chain teeth hit the wood at the back of that open notch it was like I had slammed on the chain brake. BAM! Dead stop and the were teeth jammed into the wood like you hammered them in there. When I managed to pull the bar out, the chips that were holding the teeth came along with the bar and were still stuck right in the chain teeth.

So I don't know if a skip tooth chain would have helped or not...

The only way I could get it to cut was to use the very end of the bar just behind the tip.

I guess maybe next time I'll make sure I have that bigger saw with me and see if that solves the problem.
 
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  • #7
Is it possible that the excessive chattering may have been causing the anti-kickback mechanism to engage the chain brake without me realizing it?
 
As Burnham says, it could be just one of those things. Twisty grain, unusual forces. Or more likely very, very hardwood. Neither of those saws, tuned or not are real rocket ships.

Possibly check your sprockets on the clutch end. for wear, may be worn and the chain jumping.
 
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  • #11
Thanks Mick,

I just never ran into that in the past - but I cut mostly elm and oak around home . Good suggestion on the sprockets - worth a check.

Paul
 
I've had that problem logging hard maple in the winter when it's real cold. Right or wrong i find thaddeus flexing the bar a little when boring in helps. Also not using the dogs keeps the bind out of the bar. Even my 395 will do it if i have a bad brain moment
 
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  • #13
Wow, that's amazing - even with a 395! Well I guess it's no wonder then that I could have problems with those little saws. I just had never run into it before.

Thanks for all the input guys.

Paul
 
I've noticed that the Norway maple in my area tends to crack while cutting and they seem to all have a slight twist in the grain.
 
Paul: If you can stand it... try a square-grind chain. I've notice that with round grind (hand-filed) if you're just a hair low with the file into your side-plates... the teath can just bite in too hard without cutting well. Never ever hapens with square unless your rakers are too low.
 
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  • #16
Hi Jed,

Well the 345 certainly had been hand filed, and I know that I have a tendency to get into the side plates. But the little Echo had a new chain.
I've never used a square grind chain...the Husky is running narrow kerf semi-chisel. Not sure if they offer square grind in narrow kerf.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Paul
 
My thinking as Jed's. Take the chain to a file again and leave the rakers alone. That narrow kerf .325 chain should cut that maple fine. Sounds like the chain might be a tad aggressive like if the rakers are low to the tooth. If you file the cutting teeth and leve the rakers alone, you might see an improvement after about 20 strokes. try 12 first.
 
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  • #19
Well I'll have to give that a try the next time I'm working with that hard stuff.
I have a couple of 45cc off brand saws that I keep as spares and I could set up one of those with the less aggressive/higher rakers and try it once.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Paul
 
In hard wood the filing is best done with a bit less hook in corner for smooth cutting.
Hook compensate for a not so good edge as well as the raker setting. Its also a bit more forgiving with angles
If you look at tooth from outside in It should be more ( than C. The straighter the better it holds, but harder to get really good sharp edge.
Some times the side of the tooth is not very sharp, It can't cut fibre of and binds in the cut.

What chain and length is this?

372 pulls 24" full comp chain well even in hard wood.
 
I hear people talk about hard as rock maple but I've never seen any .Granted a standing dead sugar maple can get hard but never so hard you can't cut it .I would think a sugar maple is a sugar maple no matter where it's at .

Now then a tree growing on the edge of the woods or in a fence row has been subjected to the wind and as such can get pretty gnarly .Fact some of it gets so gnarly even with a splitter it comes apart like a rope all twisted up so .About as bad as elm some times .
 
My guess after reading all this. Music Please.... , it is a filing issue not the particular Tree. Just like one files just a little different for full day of Pine or Poplar , same for the hard stuff
 
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  • #23
Yes, I should have mentioned that it wasn't just one tree. I ran into it several times over a weekend of cutting.
There was one group of maples that I had trouble with every one of them - even small 6 and 8 inch would present the same issue. Those little ones didn't always stop the saw but they would come close.

After the first one that caused problems with the little Echo, I just stuck to the 345 but as mentioned, it didn't make much difference. I never went back to get the 372 (well it's actually a 362 but has an overbored 372 cylinder in it. And it only has the skip tooth chain on it because I never had a skip tooth chain and wanted to try it once:P

Paul
 
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