Hollow tree topping - barber chair

pantheraba

More biners!!!
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We are getting a site ready for a metal building (1200 sq. ft) and some trees needed to be removed to make room. I had already removed 2 largish oaks, maybe 70 ft, not too many limbs...was able to bomb a lot of the trees. I left about a 30 foot spar, dug out the root ball with an excavator and pushed the spars over...worked very well. We got a roll-off dumpster brought in and used the T300 Bobcat to push them into the dumpster.

I then got to looking at a large oak that was leaning somewhat towards the new building site...it was probably 80 feet and too tall to fall whole due to "keeper trees" that would get damaged. Piecing it out would have been tedious...especially since some of the limbs were high up and towards power lines. There was room to dump a large top onto the building site....about a 40-50 foot top. I knew that would be probably the biggest top I have taken so I set up some cameras. I also had a few wonderings about this tree. It had a pretty good lean already. The other two smaller/younger oaks had some hollowness so I thought there may be some with this tree, too.

Long story short...I made a small face cut and encountered some hollow. We already had a good pull line to assist...if the top somehow went to the right (the center of mass of the limbs/leaves appeared to be towards the "right" which would have taken down two high voltage lines). We had the pull rope pretty high in the top and a very slight tensioning with the Bobcat. I started my back cut on the right high voltage side of the tree. I planned to set a thick hinge and then retreat to my tie-in tree (about 15 feet away) as we let the Bobcat pull the tree over the hinge. As I made my back cut and got almost 2/3 around the tree towards setting the left side of the hinge (at about 8-9 inches from where I would have stopped I noticed the back cut open just a little. I killed the saw, released the lanyard and swung over to my safety spot. Herb tightened up just a smidge with the Bobcat and the top started over.

The tree was hollow enough that there was not enough wood to set a good hinge. My face cut had been fairly shallow (much less than 1/3) but with the top already leaning it did not take much to get the felling process rolling. I got a pretty good show as I watched the top go over and then rip a barber chair as it tipped over...it would have been a gut squasher for anyone still in the tree and on their lanyard.

In retrospect, I wonder if chaining the spar just below the face cut could have been a way to deal with the barber chair possibility. I did not know for sure the tree was hollow that high up...did not bore cut it first. I have heard of doing a test bore cut at ground level but not at height.

I don't think kerf cuts below the face cut would have done any good at all...the barber chair was pretty substantial.

I would like to get input from y'all about this situation.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sZ02XShWlNM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Happy you were quick on getting away.
I think a lesser pull and having the skid steer act more a guy with just some tension would have sufficed instead of a pull. Was there good hinge wood around the hollow, enough rind? Standard face if you can get away with it not pinching the saw.
Hard to say from the arm chair. It did look like the tree would have committed with just the energy stored in the pull rope from taking the stretch out.
 
Oaks are good for that. Oaks and Alders. Stupid Alders. . .

I always like the idea of hanging some weight midline on the pull rope (though I seldom do it). Maybe straps, GF Beranek style if retreat wasn't an option. A buddy of my got clobbered on an Alder tear out. Not really sure how they're still alive, but it was scary to watch.

Anyways, a standard face, powerful sharp saw, and committing to the hinge. Any doubt, put some straps on it.

Those were some big old dogs man. Heavy wood.
 
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The tree was committed to the lay I wanted. If I could have been in a good work position without a lanyard on the tree getting cut I think I could have chased the cut quickly and prevented that BC. But once I saw the back cut open a bit that idea went away.

The skidsteer was there jut in case...the rope was only snug...I could rock the pull rope back and forth before I went up (only took the slack out).

Hinge wood available...not really. When I started the back cut on the right side I felt the resistance of the rind wood. As I swept the saw around the tree and started sawing towards the tree I was through the rind and starting to cut into the hollow...the sawing was getting easier. That was when I saw the slight opening of the cut.

Once I abandoned the tree I just told him to pull to be sure we missed the power lines...didn't want the right side favor of the center of mass to cause pivoting when it started tipping. I think my logic is sound but that's why I am floating this...seeing what others would do.
 
I call that a sweet drop, even though it didn't go exactly as planned.. YOu had the experience, knowledge and equipment to get the job done, fast easy and safely.... YOu knew when to GTF outta there and the skid loader had it, no problem, with the high pull line... OBviously that would have killed any climber that had a lanyard under the cut, so it doubles as a good lesson for what can go wrong on heavy front leaners with structural isses or if the machine op pulls early... Maybe if you had chased the cut a little more, it would have gone over on the hinge, but who knows... CLimber's first responsibilty is always his own safety...

One cloncern is that the fall becomes a lot farther than planned, which in this case you had plenty of room for. Another consideration is the tree could go off the lay directionally if there is twist in the grain.. I;ve seen it happen...

Technically, that's not a barber chair.. that's a split trunk, which is more likely to go down the trunk than up the trunk when you are at height... When you are on the ground, the stump can't split, so the split goes up and casuses BBC... Great video... cool to watch the actual movement that casues the split.. thanks for sharing
 
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Gary split on the split! Nice outcome. Good video. Thanks for posting.

hahaha...that's good, Peter!

Murph...thanks for the input. Good point on the twisted grain..had not thought of that. And 10-4 on terminology...BC did not seem exactly right but it jumped into my head. Split trunk is more accurate.

And it did use up the LZ more than planned...good observation.
 
Good post, Murph. With the hollow, I guess you don't much get that tell tale big crack sound that tells you it's favoring and about time to get out of Dodge when pulling. Gary, good that your perception was on the back opening up. Nice work, kicked some ass there.
 
Rotten trees are bad trees. There's always lots of unknowns. You did good to have a pre-planed escape route. Always very smart. Though, I'd venture to say your tiny face cut, as with a normal tree, was the culprit to the result in that one. But that was a rotten tree, and upon discovery of the fact, under the situation, you started thinking about all kinds of things. Mostly bad things. You shied away from cutting the face deeper. Perhaps for fear of the trunk collapsing. And perhaps you judge correctly.

Rotten trees are bad trees...
 
Not that it would help on that big of a diameter topping cut but, on some trees you can trip the top or limb from 15 feet away with a power polesaw. Also some trees or tops known to be too dangerous to climb can be dismantled in acceptable sizes with same. The Stihl HT 131 will pull a 14 inch bar well.
 
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hahaha, good one, Stephen...glad to be sitting on this side of that tree laughing today.

Good point on the small face, Jerry. I noticed how small it was in the vid, too.

On the ground I would have considered a Coos Bay and would have chained/strapped above the face cut. I think Coos Bay would have gotten me in a mess up in the tree.

I suppose the key thing is to recognize the possibilities and plan for their rearing their ugly head. I'll look at leaning tops differently now...will definitely see if I can determine how much solid wood is really there...maybe plunge a vertical cut in the direction of the fell to get a sounding of solidity.
 
A vchain would definitely have been your friend in that situation.
Even better, two.

One above and one below your face cut.

We use that a lot when we take big tops on hazard trees in one cut.
 
Yeah i'd say the small face and the thick hinge (assumed from the stall) caused it to stall. As well as the skid steer. If it's got a head lean, don't pull even more, make your cuts and trust the physics. After making the face and seeing that it was hollow you'd want to cut the back cut fast. My .02. And as was said, escape routes Rock!
 
Wow. That was considerably terrifying to watch.

FWIW, sometimes I'll sacrifice the comfort of a smaller saw to take one with more power and in turn the capability to chase it during my back cut. Easy to say sitting in my recliner. Not saying that woulda made the difference, or acting like it would have gone better if it was me.... or gone as well as what you did.

With that said, well done getting the f outta there.

Scary shit. Glad you are all good.

Thanks for sharing
 
Wow, Gary! That's scary to watch. So glad you made a nice clean getaway!

Basically the main "uh-oh" moment was that the back cut started to open well before you anticipated it would/should?

Also looks like the saw was still attached to the tree...am I making that up?
 
Dang Gary. It's always a little un settling to see massive cavitation and destruction in a place you were just sitting in.

But, you knew what was up..... a deeper notch probably would helped make the hinge smaller....thick hinges on pull trees can Barber.

I wasn't there and you were....and looks great from my house. :)
 
Every one went home so you made the right choice. I will agree on a deeper notch and more power in the back cut. Even with that I wouldn't of been in the circle of death on that cut. Binders top and bottom would've helped as well. Glad you're ok.
 
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Peter...restriction on the DZ was some other nice oaks that we want to keep...they would have been damaged if we felled the tree whole in the best direction.

Stig...10-4 on chain above and below...good input. Is a "vchain" a typo or is that a different animal?

Jeff...yep, the back cut opened just a little and at first I thought I was seeing things...cut a second or two more and definitely saw slight opening. That was confirmation of my spidey sense that had me in "mission mode" before I even climbed the tree. Herb and Chris were asking questions and bantering some as I got ready for the climb. Herb asked at one point if he could help do anything...I said, "yeah, just keep out of my head for awhile". Some guys can probably joke and be nonchalant before a ditzy climb. I kind of get serious, introspective, detail oriented and ignore unnecessary distractions. Herb understands that kind of thing...he is our Dive Team Commander and knew when I said "keep out of my head for awhile" what I meant.

And yes, I had the saw lanyarded to the tree...on a small side limb. It was my 290...I didn't want to have to mess with it if time became of the essence. It's on a 6 foot lanyard of 3/8" static line...strong enough to dump it as needed.

In hindsight I should have had my lanyard set up differently to keep me out of the "circle of death"...it didn't matter this time since I saw the problem developing but I am sure that I will start doing that more as a precautionary thing in the future.
 
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About that deeper notch...help me understand here. There was a bit of rot/hollowness at the center of the face cut. A deeper notch would have accessed more of that openness of the hollow cavity...effectively I would have had two posts for a hinge with no center. The hinge was basically going to be the rind wood, maybe 3-4" on each side.

Maybe a deeper notch would have given me better info on the precariousness of the (not gonna be enough) hinge. I guess I could have hauled up two chains at that point, chained above and below the face and then made a quick back cut...and not be in the circle of death as I cut.

Is that what you are getting at...Deva and Rich?

I was definitely surprised to find that much missing wood where I had planned for a hinge. I am gonna rethink throwing big, leaning tops.
 
One the lanyarding out of the circle of death thing. I guess I feel that in certain trees, just like these big old bastards Gary, that clipping a wire core into a central attachment point, along with your secondary tie in and escape line, could also be super dangerous. You might not get smashed by the tear out, but it could easily blow apart the hardware on your bridge, or leave you basically choked around a big part of the departing top. . . You absolutely nailed it by disconnecting and kicking away.

Scary stuff man. Thank you for posting this. I've watched it several times, and it's a valuable cautionary example for sure.

Cheers.
 
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