how often do you need to have the groundy let a piece run for your safety?

murphy4trees

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I never liked depending on a groundy to let a piece run to assure my safety. I think with all the advances in rigging equipment and skills we should aim to eliminate that need. Your thoughts???
 
I have a couple of guys I use regularly, one will not let stuff run, the other is pretty good, self rigging helps.
Otherwise just go smaller.
 
I've been rattled pretty good a few times. In one case I was shaken off of my spurs. My groundie felt horrible, but he learned from his mistake. No injuries to report, but I never want that to happen to me again.

I've questioned the Aerial Friction Brake sold by TreeStuff. Not sure that I could get my hands on the rope in time to keep the piece from crashing into a fence, or some other landscape feature by myself. I like working with a guy who can handle the ropes on the ground.

A fellow arborist in Fargo just purchased the AFB from TreeStuff. He's going to give it a try. I'd like to hear some feedback from him after he uses it a few times.

Joel
 
I have been in that situation once with Dave Bryant as climber and myself on the rope. I can't' remember why it was that way but that was the only way he and I agreed upon after ten minutes of deliberation. We needed the piece to run past him but put the breaks on immediately after so it wouldn't smash the roof. Tight! I mean inches.
 
Is it something that can be avoided all the time, no IMO. A climber just by the very fact they are off the ground puts them in harms way then consider all the variables involved. We all take steps to avoid danger but it's still there somewhere.
 
This is an art form; IMHO.
Should be polished perfected on non-essentials;
ready to be deployed confident-ally.
.
Properly done, less stress on line, and all support points connected.
.
When got 1st T Porty or slings or pulleys etc.
Always and all ways looked to over use and over exercise.
Know how to deploy and use and the co$ts minimized and known.
.
Would preach, then the gunfighter can holster that weapon and be able to draw and shoot accurately on a moments notice.
(kinda from teaching young boys the gunfighter's reputation never made him faster, only the other man slower- don't get bluffed out etc...)
.
i had slings and krabs for years, would only have them sent up when doing something special;
that action became part of deployment time.
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One of the biggest , best changes i ever made was to take the tools with me on each hike upwards;
have available; i found so many uses i wondered how i did without them!
 
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  • #13
Setting multiple rigging blocks rings shackles etc to use redirects to keep pieces moving away from us, goes a long way to keeping climbers safer... good point Kenny
 
Depends on how you're defining safety Daniel.

I basically never rely on him if you're talking about a size piece he could lock up that could break the stem. If you just mean flung around and knocked up a bit... I guess most of us rely on him pretty frequently. And when it becomes an issue, ya just go smaller eh?
 
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  • #18
Never been hurt or nearly hurt in a tree, so I'm not inclined to change anything.

Glad to hear it Reg... ANd what's the answer to the question... how often do YOU rely on the ground guy letting a piece run to keep you safe.. I would actually like to specify "to keep you from getting hit by the piece"..
 
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  • #19
So to clarify.. the question is not about letting a piece run that is negative rigging. It's about the cuts of Limb and wood can swing back and hit the climber..
 
I've worked with many guys that couldn't run ropes. I learned how to adjust my rigging, climbing, and cutting to make sure I was in no danger of them hurting me. But when I can get a guy trained to run ropes, it is so nice. Instead of 2-3 cuts I can take it in one. I was taught that the least amount of cuts while climbing is the safest.
I also have issues with the climber running the friction device. How does one make the cut, stow the saw, brace for the ride, and run the ropes while upswing two hands on a saw? I run my own rigging on occasion but I one hand my saw to do it.
 
Every situation is different. My ground man keeps me safe from swinging pieces when work positioning can be a problem with making the cut.
Sometimes I will lower to my guys, if I can cut and handle the rope in tandem. Sometimes we switch back and forth.
Here is a video of a little oak Katy and I did. Some I ran myself because I could and it was faster. I was easier for her since the drive way sloped off quite a bit and she could walk the limb down hill towards the chipper. Some I had her do since my positioning did not work with self roping.
Find yourself a good ground man. It's tough. But when it happens. My new guy Jason is a great roper. I got lucky and I am training him to be a good climber. We often take turns. Don't linger long on a guy that does not work out. Yes, sometimes you can find a work around with rigging and self lowering. Sometimes, you just really need one. A climber is way more efficient with a good ground man IMHO. Team wins.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/A7AEHKN-wvw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
You're right. Every situation is different. Also a climber is way better to have on your crew than someone who is just a groundman. We hired a new climber two weeks ago. Boss put him with my crew, making us a foursome. That makes 3 of us that can get the job done and with 4 of us we can split up and really blow out some work. To be honest, I might be too climber but I'm definatly the worst on the rope out of the four of us. It's just very rare that I'm on that end of the job. Trying to remedy that though.
 
So to clarify.. the question is not about letting a piece run that is negative rigging. It's about the cuts of Limb and wood can swing back and hit the climber..

Dan, it's actually not that easy to cut a section so it swings away, but then have it swing back and beyond the place where it started. It can only really happen if youre mid tying, or partly doing so. In those situations, more specifically on horizontal limbs I'll use an outboard step cut, meaning the top cut is further forward from the bottom cut. In a free fall situation the limb can snatched your saw with that cut, but not if it's mid tied with a rigging line. What it does is stops the the butt shooting back at the climber when the grain breaks....because the step is left on the top side of the stub, a barrier of sorts. If the ground worker let's the line run as instructed, then it's not so relevant. But I do it just in case. It's pretty basic stuff really.
 
Reg your good at pointing out the simple things that I often overthink! Lol. I use to be so anal about not having the branch tips even touch a roof that I was mid tieing the limbs and playing dodge the branch &#55357;&#56834;. Took me longer than I care to admit that butt tying was the answer the majority of the time!
 
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