What do you folks recommend for dead leaders with no collateral damage possibility?

flashover604

TreeHouser
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Sep 3, 2014
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Lancaster Ohio
Hi all. The title should be dead "LEANERS"

Welcome to episode two of "Homeowners How To". I've got several trees out at my parents place that are dead and leaning into other live trees. They're in the woods so I'm not worried about them hitting anything when they come down, but they're hanging over trails that people frequent. I'd like to get them on the ground on MY schedule, not theirs. They're between 10"-16" diameter and 40'-60' tall. One is broken about 8' off the ground and still attached to the stump. I don't know HOW attached though. It may just be gravity holding the two ends together. I thought about tying a rigging rope to the bottom and pulling the bottom of the tree away from the lean and letting the top drop straight down if it'll come down. I've got an 8000# winch with 150' of cable and a 25,000# rated snatch block to redirect the cable. If this sounds like a decent way to drop these,

A: How would you attach the rope to the dead trees, i.e.: is there a knot that would be good to use so I can loosen it after the force is applied, and

B: Am I underestimating the force necessary to pull them down?

Thanks in advance!

Zach
 
It's often difficult to pull the bottom out, especially if it's not broken clear off. Also beware you don't just pivot the top back into your truck. If you can get close enough for a direct near direct pull I'd put the snatch block on the butt and try to use a block purchase. If it doesn't come reasonably easy you may need to find another method
 
Flashover604,

This is fairly easy work, though you must carefully think things through before making a cut.

The tree that is broken off 8 feet up........that one should be rigged with ropes into at least two nearby trees to prevent it from falling on you when you cut the stump away.

You could use ropes for this, but a good logging chain is a better solution. A logging chain has a slip hook (Not a grab hook) on one end. It will snug itself tightly against the tree when you begin to pull. The chain will slip through the wide throat of this hook, rather than be fastened to a another chain link.

If you choose to use ropes, you'll need to learn how to tie the running bowline. Super easy to untie after pulling out a dead tree.....but chains are better for this job.

It's always a good idea to run your cable or rope through an old tire, or toss a large piece of carpet over, in the event that the cable or rope snaps while loaded. These things will absorb the energy and prevent the cable/rope/hooks from flying wildly through the air. The old tire, jacket, carpet....whatever you use.....works great at preventing broken windows, injuries, and flying materials.

Think things through. Understand what forces are in play and where things will want to move when the wood is cut.

Joel
 
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  • #4
Ok. I think I'll be plenty far away, so I don't think I'll be close enough to hit the truck, with the long cable plus the length of the rigging rope. What exactly do you mean by Block Purchase? Do you mean strap the block to the dead leaner and use the 2:1 MA pulling the block towards the winch? That would put me 70' or so away from the trunk, which is still be comfortable with, as long as the bottom of the tree moves first and the top doesn't lift out and start coming back towards me.
 
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  • #5
Thanks for the warning Cando. I'm familiar with the tire or jacket or canvas tarp to catch or slow the cable when potential energy becomes kinetic. I used to have a picture of a jeep with the winch cable going through the windshield, through the headrest, and out through the back soft top window. They were pulling against the ball on the stuck vehicles hitch. It broke and the cable barely missed two people. Scary stuff. I do have a nice logging chain with the loop, not a hook. I'd forgotten about it.
 
Flashover604,

Most often the stump is cut in such a way as to prevent the tree from sliding backward. This is done by making a notch and a backcut, with the backcut about an inch higher than the base of the notch. This creates a stub that prevents the tree from sliding over.

When pulling trees out, I generally make the back cut slightly lower than the hinge, to allow the tree to slip over the stump when being pulled.

You'll likely need a picture. I'll see what I can do here.

Pulling cut.png

Joel
 
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  • #8
Understood Joel, I appreciate the pictures! Now, with these leaning I would imagine that if I were to cut my notch and back cut like normal, when I start making my back cut it seems to me that the top being caught will make the back cut pinch the bar, correct? I would imagine that the tree would open up towards the ground leaning side, correct? Or do you cut the back cut just enough that when you pull it breaks at the hinge away from the ground leaning side?
 
Flashover,

If the tree is hung up in another tree, the backcut will open only slightly as she begins to tip. It shouldn't pinch the bar on the saw. Place a wedge in the backcut as you proceed. This will prevent the tree from falling on your bar as the cut is finished.

Once you have the hinge cut completed, you can now proceed to narrow the hinge wood by cutting in slightly from each side of the hinge, making the hinge wood nothing more than a small square. It can then be pulled free with the chain, so long as there is some lean in the tree. If the tree remains upright, pulling it from a spot above the notch could cause it to tip toward you.

Joel
 
The picture you posted is how I'd make my cut with the top being hung up in another tree. This will allow you to pull the tree back off and away from the stump. The standard notch will not allow you to do this.

Joel
 
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  • #12
Gotcha. Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it goes.


Unless it goes bad. Then I'll just act like I never got around to doing it...
 
Yes to the mechanical advantage. If you're going to fall the trunk with the top attached I'd leave the hinge beefy and have your winch attached high on the stub, then winch it from a safer place.
 
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  • #15
Thanks for the info. I'll be careful and start small. I understand that there's a bunch of stored energy and weight involved. I don't take it lightly. (Pun fully intended)
 
Flashover604,

As Sotc mentioned, pulling high on that stump, about 7 feet up, is a great plan. Just remember that doing so will create a lifting force on your tractor, or truck. An option would be to install a tail block on another tree at a height equal to, or lower than your hitch. The cable can then travel from there at an upward angle to the tree stump, but it won't attempt to lift your truck off the ground.

Joel
 
Just try to break them off, if it seems possible.

2:1 block purchase, like Willie SOTC suggested.


Pictures ALWAYS help.
 
Let the saw and gravity do the work whenever possible... they all want to come down..

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eUQ1p2QPdxU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qwdcr9mWbmg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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  • #21
In a situation like this where you're pulling with MA and using ROPE, is 1/2" rigging rope with a 9-10,000 breaking strength adequate? I understand that each situation is different, but would you consider a 1/2" rope if you came across the situation? I'm going to invest in a rigging rope for my peace of mind if I have to cut something down and want to tie it off before hand.im just not sure which one to get.
 
Sure would, especially with the 2:1. But that doesn't mean to max out the 8000# winch.
 
Stretchy rope in a MA system sucks, IMHO. A good double braid is nice. Now stretch on a maasdam is nice, gives you just a little extra pull with no extra work when pulling over a spar or whatever.
 
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  • #24
What I'm looking at currently is the Samson Stable Braid 1/2" bull rope. Any opinions on it? It looks like a low stretch double braid with a working load of 2100# and an average breaking strength of 10,400#. It's supposed to have good abrasion resistance. Would you use it with a natural crotch at times?
 
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