Your approach to the bidding process...

Open-ended discussion about how you bid jobs...



I have an easy time figuring the logistics and mechanics of tree work. I have a hard time accurately estimating times involved, especially if employees are involved. Really its a lot of 'lather, rinse, and repeat', in my mind. High TIP, good rigging point, make a plan, express the plan, confirm the plan, work the plan. Work efficiently. Don't make 'double-work' out of a job, or get two or three people involved in a one-person task.



I like the occasional mind-bender of how will we do what they ask. Recently, I had a bid for a tall alder removal with a declining top over a lot of landscape plants, up on a three foot retaining wall with a 20* slope toward the nearby garage, and primary power lines to the side, sorta wrapped around another tree nearer to the bottom. He didn't want the landscaping damaged. By the time I figured out the rigging, logistics of disposal, etc, I forgot to give him a 'crush it' or you/ we dig and replace the shrubs price.

I get that a lot where "we don't want this damaged", but then they take pause at the price. If I say I won't damage something, it means I won't damage it, not sorta smash it and it will grow back.


When I had a State job 40 hours a week, and my employee bid jobs, he would often put a higher number on things because it looked so complicated to him, or he didn't know how we would do it. I, on the other hand, pretty much know how it will all go on the work day before I put a number on it at the bid, at least for simpler jobs with only a few trees.


Pruning neglected apple trees doesn't have a specific end-point, as it is normally a multi-stage reduction and re-structuring. If I tell people that it is too nebulous to put a bid price on, then they naturally ask for an estimate of how long it will take. If I could read my crystal ball well enough for that, and accurately specify the Scope of Work, I could just put a bid price on it. For those cases, I tell them that I have to put an hourly price on it, and we can stay within the budget of $XXXX dollars, focusing on getting things done in the prioritized order of X,Y,then Z if there is time, or that we will do X, Y and Z completely, and see what time it takes.

The rare/ occasional view pruning (lots of waterfront around here) where I shake limbs to get the view just right without exposing the neighbor's whatever, with the direction of the home owner and groundie with Sena, is easy money to me. They get just what they want, and I get my hourly, doing easy work. It takes twice as long, or so, for the same amount of climbing and material disposal. I get to rest while they hem-and-haw. Groundie gets a break the whole time, physically.




You?

I have been slowly learning how to figure out if it is even worth it to go to a bid. Prequalifying I guess is what you call it. Right now things are slow so I m following every lead but really it is pointless.

I have yet to work on a hourly basis, I feel like people would be putting the squeeze on you the whole time. I just tell them the price is the price for the desired effect and give them a rough time frame. Sometimes, if the job goes really fast we will give a discount but I try not to do that.

Estimating isn't too hard for me because it is just me and my brother and lately we have been doing most bids together which really helps to have a second set of eyes on things. When I did sales for a short time as an employee I put out high numbers to make sure whatever crew got the job could probably make it come in. That Co had a very high volume of calls and no prequalifying whatsoever as far as I remember. I think I closed 50% or less. Last year I think I was around 75%.

The view pruning sounds like a nice gig Sean.

I mentally hang blocks in the tree, figure how long it will take to do the climbing, add a bit for clean up after it's done, step back and make sure it doesn't look too cheap for the tree. I've started to not let myself discount below initial feelings but I can increase the price.
Only bids that are a waste of time are bids that burned you before. I've been surprised too many times by getting a job I didn't expect to get. I went too a ladies house for the third time yesterday to find out she'd forgotten I was coming yet again. Told the office not to let her reschedule, if it's that hard to bid for her, how hard will collecting payment be? She disqualified herself

I bid now based on what the crew has accomplished in the past. Once bid $2,500 on a tree that took the crew until about 9pm to finish, plus had $300 in disposal and $250 in renting a big truck for hauling logs. Either overtime I ended up losing big time. When I see trees that size now, I know to bid for another day.


love
nick

Kinda glad I don't have to do it Sean. I'd never get a stick of work... "How much just to prune this Leyland Cypress hedge back a bit?"

"Uhhh.... Nine Million dollars."

I suck at estimating. That's why I'm broke.

I've been moving towards two prices, half day and whole day, but I have no employees or other paid help.

Breaking things into segments like that is helpful for me as well, half day/full day etc.

Half day / full day works for me also.
I'm not real fond of the sales aspect of this biz, to the extent of having my neighbour bid a lot of jobs for me.
He is not much of a "tree guy", but is personable, and a decent salesman, who generally tends to bid jobs higher than I would have.

I think we all end up making a few mistakes along the way. It's not just the guys in the tree business who do this. I work part-time helping the local cabinet maker during the winter months. He bids his kitchen projects and often comes away saying that he should have bid the project differently.

Tree work is something I would rather do at my own pace. I never bid a job on an hourly rate basis, because I'd feel pressured and it would no longer be as enjoyable to me.

I meet with the customer, take a bunch of pictures, write down a number of things, then go home and look at the pictures on the computer and figure out a rigging plan. I then look at the work involved as far as climbing and cutting would go, then figure in the time that would be spent removing the mess from the yard. Fences and narrow openings get figured in, as do inclines and slopes. Sensitive landscaping, gardens, buildings, other trees, obstacles of all sorts......all of these are considered. If the pictures show a lot of other work that could be done in the yard, I prepare myself for a few "while you're heres", and make that part of the bid.

My customers always get something done for free. I make it a point to do that on every job.

After all is said and done, I add about 300 dollars for wear and tear on my equipment, then make another visit with the customer and explain the process. I then cough up the bid and see what happens. Usually I get the go-ahead on the spot. Once in a while I'll get a customer who wants to think about it for a while. This is when I offer them a discount, provided they're willing to wait until I'm in town doing another job. This helps a whole lot to secure a job that I may have otherwise lost.

Hope this helps.

Joel

Joel, what is your percentage closing rate on bids? What is your discount rationale if they don't bite immediately?

I would say that my percentage of accepted bids runs in the neighborhood of 80%. The discount is figured in according to the number of miles I'd have to drive, fuel expenses, labor involved in travel, meals, etc. Most times I'll take 400-500 off the price if they're willing to wait until we're in the area doing another job. This is a back-scratching approach that helps both of us. My customers are almost always willing to wait, unless it's an emergency situation following a storm, etc.

Joel

I just think about how long it'll take and figure from there. I visualize the rigging while bidding( something I do when I look at any tree, even while playing with my kids at the park), and have a plan before giving the price. My biggest challenge is that I work for a company that has monster size equipment and when it's my job I don't have that. I have a hard time remembering that the clean up will take much longer. I'm thankful that my partner is better at pricing than I am. He does great and I don't really need to bid, I'm just there to offer suggestions.

Joel, getting 80% of your bids seems high. I don't know your market but for my work I hope to get 40% of what I actually look at. I was told a long time ago that getting over 60% of what you bid meant you're bidding to low.

I agree.

Treebilly,

I agree with you. My bid acceptance rate is unusually high, but this is largely due to the fact that I live in a place where tree businesses are very hard to find.

Most of the tree companies around here hold contracts with municipalities, or they do contract clearing work for the utility companies. They don't like to get involved with the urban trees, so they bid HIGH with hopes that the homeowner never calls them again. I've learned over the years that I could actually bid more for my work, but I work for a living too. I know what it's like to hire a roofer, for example. I try to help out where I can, without skinning myself too badly.

Joel

So who has a prequalifying process?

As long as you do ok on it, you're ok. Like I said, I don't know your market. I can open up the phone book here and have a whole page of tree companies.

Treebilly,

There are about a dozen certified arborists in the entire State of North Dakota. The great majority of them work for the State forestry service, or are employed in the university system. I believe there are only 4 certified arborists who own their own tree care businesses in the entire State. I happen to be one of them. There are only two tree companies within 100 miles of me, and neither of them have a certified arborist on staff.

Joel

like I said, if you're doing ok with it, it works for you. I'm not going to get rich with my pricing. I feel that the customer gets their monies worth. Just as long as the price comes out to be fair for both parties it's all good.

How many guys? How many days?....plus extra needs (permits/equip) or a PITA fee (rotten neighbor or a yard full of what the f#$k).

Sometimes I prefer to inspect jobs without the client there, its not ideal as you can't make a connection on a personal level but its easier to run through the mechanics of the work and view it from all angles especially if its large. I've noticed with many leads recently people are asking for an estimate over the phone or via email and then deciding on who they will invite for a quote based on these preliminary "estimates". A bit frustrating because its essentially just more unpaid work.

Our minimum price to drive to your house and trim a tree is $350. Most we've ever charged to prune a tree is $3,500. So when we get those calls our office manager tells them "it can range from 350 to 3500." 😆

That usually ends the call quickly so we can all get back to doing actual work.


love
nick

Chris E said:

Sometimes I prefer to inspect jobs without the client there, its not ideal as you can't make a connection on a personal level but its easier to run through the mechanics of the work and view it from all angles especially if its large. I've noticed with many leads recently people are asking for an estimate over the phone or via email and then deciding on who they will invite for a quote based on these preliminary "estimates". A bit frustrating because its essentially just more unpaid work.

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I'll use google street view, going back in the history you can watch the decline of a tree, kinda freaks out the HO when you tell them "oh, that maple in your side yard, yeah, looks like it started to die in 2012."

Chris, since I have been doing bids with my brother we typically do a quick meet with the HO then more or less ask them to go inside so we can do some figurin. Best of both worlds.

Chris E said:

Sometimes I prefer to inspect jobs without the client there, its not ideal as you can't make a connection on a personal level but its easier to run through the mechanics of the work and view it from all angles especially if its large. I've noticed with many leads recently people are asking for an estimate over the phone or via email and then deciding on who they will invite for a quote based on these preliminary "estimates". A bit frustrating because its essentially just more unpaid work.

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I agree with the double-edged sword of no homeowner around.

I often tell them that after our conversation, I now well understand the scope of work and what values they expressed about various aspects (timing of job, impact to site, etc). I'll crunch some numbers and ring the bell when I have their written bid finished.

Sometimes, if you can bring up coffee, they will offer a cup. A chance for alone-time, then time for a chat when they're back with the coffee. People drink a lot of coffee here.

When I come back to do the work, they know I drink coffee, and will offer a cup. A great opportunity to 'send them off' for a cup, getting them out of the way. When we are underway, especially with the comm units, they can't really try to start up conversation with me or employees. They give a smile, a wave, and set it down near the truck, we keep on keeping on. A wave back and shout out a 'thank you' (for letting us focus on doing your work well and staying out of the way, and the coffee).