srt canopy tie in

onepaw

TreeHouser
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Feb 12, 2016
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missouri
Hello. I'm New to climbing and especially srt. I've used different base tie techniques and I'm sitting here thinking about canopy tie ins. I've read about using the running bowline and alpine butterfly and using another line to retrieve. My question is could I use a carabiner and run my climb line thru it and use it to cinch around the limb? Then climb up to the carabiner, hook it to my saddle and decend ddrt? Just wondering if that would be safe and effective. I can't find any information on it and figured you guys could help! Thanks
 
I use a screw locking biner replaced every year or so as my main way of direct tie. I just tie a alpine butterfly with two end of rope on ground then clip and lock generally i keep the gate of the biner up so weighted rope is on the solid side and not on the gate of the biner
 
You certainly could Guy but It wouldn't be my preferred method. There's always a chance the carabiner could become cross loaded or that the gate could even open in a rare case. Untying a running bowline and clipping into your bridge for ddrt descent only takes a few seconds and is worth the peace of mind for me.
 
I use an alpine butterfly knot and a delta quick link. You can set as much climb line as you need. Retreive with the otherside.
 
RB and then I clip a caribiner to the tail of the bowline
image.jpg
I'll either hook up ddrt or clip a few loop runners on that Biner when ready to bring down the spar
 
I use a running bowline with a Yosemite finish or double overhand stopper knot with the climb line descending through the bight, and tie the other end of my line to the tail on the knot for a retrieve from the ground and cinch it up onto the crotch. Just have to make sure to tie into the correct rope when starting to climb!!
 
I agree with the others here who advise against using a carabiner in this configuration. The running bowline, with a safety on the tail end, is a far better option.

The running bowline has a tendency to slip when under varying degrees of load. Under a constant load it's a good knot, but when bouncing ( loading-unloading repeatedly) it can work lose. A safety placed in the tail end of the bowline will prevent it from slipping through the knot.

Joel
 
I dont' sweat running a canopy anchor up and having some slack in the loop. It will only sometimes form a choking circle as tight as if your tied it up close. For example, If it has a 5' loop instead of a 3' loop around a vertical stem, and it doesn't budge while bounce testing, I climb on it. When I get part way up, I might unweight it, flip the rope a bit and try to snug up a foot of rope out of it, then a little bounce, and go.

Hope that makes sense.
 
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  • #11
Cool. Thanks for the replies. It seemed like a good idea last night, not so much now! I have a lot of those. So running bowline or alpine butterfly it is. I'll try both tomorrow. Is a canopy tie in better than a base tie overall or is it matter of preference or depends on condition?
 
Take down, canopy tie.

On a take down if I can't isolate a good canopy TIP, I'll basal tie, then switch over to canopy.

If the tree's structure is iffy on a TD, I'll run the line through a number of suspension points, base tie, and if suitable, put a canopy anchor and leave the basal in as well, mindful of the basal anchor when cutting.

Pruning, rec climb, or tree access work, basal tie if I can't get a good canopy anchor.
 
If you have shoddy ground workers cutting near the base-tie, you should be concerned. If you're dropping chunks that could fall against the base-tie and severe the rope (particularly if tensioned), it might be time to go to a canopy anchor. I am certain that if there is risk of damage to the base-tie, that my lanyard is full life support strength, including a possibly shockload from loss of support by the climb-line. Someone you Trust to watch that potential safety situation closely, can help to monitor the integrity of your base-tie.

Canopy anchors don't spread forces as much, or have as much rope in the system for shock absorption, nor do they have emergency lower-ability from the ground.

Trade-offs.




Pull test your canopy retrieval system either from the tree, or with help from the ground worker by unweighting the climbing rope and simulate removal. Save a re-climb.


As I mentioned, you can have a safe canopy anchor that isn't cinched as tightly as it might be absolutely possible.
I climb a lot of Doug-fir. If my Running bowline is 6-7' in circumference, angled downward, it will be waaaaay easier to retrieve than if it was as tight as possible, cinched in a horizontal loop.

I will need to get a picture later to better show what I mean.


Figure out which is better for each situation. Its very variable.

A choked canopy anchor is totally omni-directional. A redirect may not be. In my case, cedar branches droop. Its very possible to have the rope slide down the limb if loaded in the wrong way. Be aware of the actual situation, rather than guidelines or trends.
 
Guy, experiment and figure out what works best for the different kinds of trees in your area. It's very hard (and time consuming) to isolate a limb in many of the trees we work and a base tie is many times the only logical option. Placing your anchor higher than your head will prevent your ground help from getting into it.
 
Good advice Ray. I do the same as reddog. AB with triple action steel biner. I start a lot of tds with a base tie then switch, as others have said. Base tie for a large majority of pruning work for me.
 
I generally do an alpine butterfly canopy anchor if I can isolate a limb, with the tail reachable from the ground for retrieval. I use an autolocking steel carabiner to eliminate concern over spine loading the biner. If isolating a limb is a PITA, I base tie, just be very mindful of the base tie location.
I most often use a canopy anchor. If I'm doing a removal I'll use a bowline with a yosemite finish. I'll switch to a butterfly with a long tail when its time to come down. When chunking down a spar I leave a tail just long enough to reach one or 2 cuts down, it makes moving and resetting pretty quick and easy.
 
SRT with a base tie is just like Ddrt... Always know where both legs of rope are, before cutting.
 
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  • #18
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. Here where I live in the Ozark mountains of Missouri there are mostly oak, hickory, sycamore, and maples. Some pine and lots of cedar. I picked out a white oak I'm going to try out tomorrow. Sprawling branches easy to isolate. Only climbed srt three times so far. Should be interesting.
 
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  • #20
My wife will be here. At this stage in the game she doesn't like for me to climb when no-one is around. I've already got in trouble for it!:)
 
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  • #22
Yep. I've got an old barn on the property that I've rigged up for solo climbing and trying things out. 30 foot 8x8 oak timbers and different assorted boards and ladders strategically lined. Pretty safe. One day I was climbing by myself. Went to move my tie in and dropped it. Luckily it hit a lower branch and held on. I was able to use my lanyard and climb down to it. No problem. Since then whenever I go to move my tie in I slip the rope into a carabiner on my saddle. Don't know if that's right or wrong but so far it's worked. I told my wife about it that night and caught hell. So that's when I created the climbing barn. No problems so far.
 
That's similar to the trick used in rock climbing. When lead climbing you have to run the rope through a set of rings at the top of the climb. You tie in (twice) with biners and slings, then tie a loop in your rope and clip it to your harness before untying your main tie in. The rope then gets passed through the rings and you tie in again, then untie the loop that you clipped. That way you cannot leave yourself stranded by dropping your rope. I have not had those concerns in a tree as my line it always through my rope runner (or the unicender previously), but I have tied loops and clipped tails on rigging lines to prevent having to have them sent back up the tree again.
 
BTW, a wife who is willing to come along so you don't climb alone is pretty awesome. Mine still asks if anyone is working with me, she doesn't like when I work solo, which I haven't done in quite a while.
 
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