In The News...
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Mick!
TreeHouser
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
The number may be true...I assume it takes into account all types of firearms related deaths.
Some of which are more newsworthy than others.
Some of which are more newsworthy than others.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
It's the "we must DO SOMETHING" that bothers me.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Why?
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Any attempt at curtailing gun violence will only focus on events similar to the Las Vegas tragedy.
For whatever reason the rest of the world only seems to focus on those types of events. Probably because they are the only types of events that make the news.
Lower suicides? Didn't really work for France.
Stem the violence in places like Chicago, Baltimore and other places like them? Probably not. Look into the war on drugs, the war on poverty, and increased federal spending and a failed court system.
So we could limit magazine capacity, and get rid of any weapons that look scary...in order to keep mass shootings from happening. Cause, like they dont happen (as often) in other countries.
If you are going bald, just wear a hat. Same thing. You might feel better about your self, but you are still going bald.
Dont waste my time with comparisons between the US and France, Denmark and other places.
For whatever reason the rest of the world only seems to focus on those types of events. Probably because they are the only types of events that make the news.
Lower suicides? Didn't really work for France.
Stem the violence in places like Chicago, Baltimore and other places like them? Probably not. Look into the war on drugs, the war on poverty, and increased federal spending and a failed court system.
So we could limit magazine capacity, and get rid of any weapons that look scary...in order to keep mass shootings from happening. Cause, like they dont happen (as often) in other countries.
If you are going bald, just wear a hat. Same thing. You might feel better about your self, but you are still going bald.
Dont waste my time with comparisons between the US and France, Denmark and other places.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
So we can end up with the Obamacare of lowering gun violence? Or maybe the war on terror of lowering gun violence?
Perhaps the "spread of democracy" of lowering gun violence?
No thanks.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Obfuscation.
You don't want any legislation because it'll be a cock-up?
Every law is doomed to failure because selected laws you don't agree with set the benchmark for the rest?
What about laws (or amendments) that are over 200 years old? Still good?
Those were put down by the hallowed founding fathers, so of course.
Americans sometimes remind me of muslims the way they adhere rigidly to a text written centuries ago, and refuse to admit that the world has changed since then.
Americans sometimes remind me of muslims the way they adhere rigidly to a text written centuries ago, and refuse to admit that the world has changed since then.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Who are you trying to protect? The folks that make the news, who's deaths are tragic but are a very small number of the 11,000 homicides that occur each year?
The suicides? A much larger percentage. Would taking away one means of killing yourself be a step in the right direction? Why not focus on treatment and prevention instead?
Trying to tackle the crime problem? Always seems like more laws is the answer there right?
Give me some specifics.
We could do things to help prevent the deaths of a Million Americans each year....but that would lessen consumption so that is out......
The suicides? A much larger percentage. Would taking away one means of killing yourself be a step in the right direction? Why not focus on treatment and prevention instead?
Trying to tackle the crime problem? Always seems like more laws is the answer there right?
Give me some specifics.
We could do things to help prevent the deaths of a Million Americans each year....but that would lessen consumption so that is out......
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Alright fellows, schit can the 2nd amendment. See if that gets you anywhere.
See if the poor folks get their pocket constitution/bill of rights out and write in the new corrections.
See if the poor folks get their pocket constitution/bill of rights out and write in the new corrections.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Really? How has the world changed?
Did people sometime in the last week or so decided that they are not going to take advantage of others to gain resources and power?
Thats great news! I suspect we can dissolve the UN now right?
That's definitely not spin Mick, that's unfortunate fact. America is a very violent place. Some places more than others, but we are very violent here. That figure is probably light too, because it doesn't include police violence, justified or not, and missing persons cases where the bodies aren't ever found (wayyyyyyyyyy more than you would think). Violence is glorified here, as evidenced by the percentage of tv shows, movies, and video games. Ironically tho, sex is super taboo. For example, 50 shades of grey got an r rating here (no one under 18 ), while it got what we call a g rating in France (fit for all ages). Horrible movie and example I know, but it illustrates my point that normal sex and love is taboo here, but killing people kinda isn't. Combine that dynamic with untreated mental illness, and shootings like this become less surprising.
Jim, my point is that declarations and laws need to be reexamined once in a while as time passes on and the world change.
Otherwise they turn into a sort of religion, like when the silly muslims demands that their women go clad like they did in the days of the prophet,keep their dietary rules the same way, yet gladly use cars and cell phones and other modern accoutrements.
Or when Right wing Americans seem to belive that their world will end and they'll all be enslaved if someone reexamines the second amendment.
Right now there are a lot of talk in Europe about redoing parts of the Human rights declaration.
It was made in the aftermath of WW1 and simply doesn't work very well in the present day.
Otherwise they turn into a sort of religion, like when the silly muslims demands that their women go clad like they did in the days of the prophet,keep their dietary rules the same way, yet gladly use cars and cell phones and other modern accoutrements.
Or when Right wing Americans seem to belive that their world will end and they'll all be enslaved if someone reexamines the second amendment.
Right now there are a lot of talk in Europe about redoing parts of the Human rights declaration.
It was made in the aftermath of WW1 and simply doesn't work very well in the present day.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Well, thankfully I can say silly Muslim and not have to fear penalty in the way of criminalized hate speech. I might get fired in the court of public perception, but so far the bureaucrats have not been able to limit my speech. Yet.
Contrary to popular belief, not everyone is entitled to firearm ownership in the US.
The penal code and law book has been expanded and revised many times. Its much larger than the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
PS, Where would I find information about the European Human rights declaration.
Contrary to popular belief, not everyone is entitled to firearm ownership in the US.
The penal code and law book has been expanded and revised many times. Its much larger than the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
PS, Where would I find information about the European Human rights declaration.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Human_Rights&usg=AOvVaw2Jq9qJOjp0dRZ59CDnhAYo
Is this it? Which parts of the declaration are being debated?
Is this it? Which parts of the declaration are being debated?
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
In case anyone was wondering, the cops kill about a 1000 each year.
Given the amount of crime we experience.....that does not seem too bad.
Given the amount of crime we experience.....that does not seem too bad.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Cory's article raised some interesting points.
One of which is how people dont usually just snap. There are warning signs and symptoms that precede these events.
Should we turn a blind eye to our real problems and just blame scary guns? God, what a windfall that would be.
Pretend like we care about the citizens of this country or just keep on keeping on? That way we would not have to look into health care, education, crime, the court system, the media, the military industry.
Nice sacrificial lamb that would be.
One of which is how people dont usually just snap. There are warning signs and symptoms that precede these events.
Should we turn a blind eye to our real problems and just blame scary guns? God, what a windfall that would be.
Pretend like we care about the citizens of this country or just keep on keeping on? That way we would not have to look into health care, education, crime, the court system, the media, the military industry.
Nice sacrificial lamb that would be.
Yep.
Not surprisingly, those parts pertaining to the rights of refugees and immigrants.
SkwerI
Treehouser
The overwhelming majority of violence in America is black on black crime. Call me racist or whatever, but the facts are facts. All this violence you talk about mostly happens in poor black neighborhoods. Those neighborhoods are inhabited by a large majority of welfare recipients and people who live their entire lives on government handouts.
Want to make America less violent? Eliminate the ghettos. And you can't do that by giving them more free money. They have been taking free money for generations. How's that working out? All of which has diddly squat to do with gun control. You cannot reduce violence by regulating an inanimate object. If you think you can, you're either not very smart or completely brainwashed.
Limbrat
TreeHouser
I'm just curious why our European brothers are so concerned about America and our laws. If Denmark, Germany or Timbuktu want to ban slingshots or pass out RPGs, I figure it's your business. Looking for some insight.
Just to be clear, I am completely against gun control in just about any form. And to be crystal, I am for weapons of war to be owned by all citizens. The people need to be able to fight against the government effectively, so I'm talking tanks, machine guns, drones, rpgs, pretty much the works when it comes to conventional weapons. That's what the amendment is there for.
I believe history repeats itself, especially if you didn't learn from it the first time around. Less than 100 years ago, the government used machine guns and even dropped left over ww1 bombs onto striking armed union miners in West Virginia. Although having the numbers, the miners lost against the mine owners and the U.S. military. Note which side they always choose (owners of business). That is not a coincidence, because our founding fathers were all big business. This country is falling apart, some people think it's because of immigrants (prejudice that has happened throughout our nation's history), some think it's the people on welfare sucking our taxes away, some think it's just the eventual spread of globalism and technology. I say it's because the government has been sold to the highest bidder, and they have no concern other than their own profits.
If you want to stop illegal immigration, you don't need to build a damn wall like we're keeping rabbits out of a garden. If you actually want to stop it, you repeal tax cuts to industrial farming and meat processing, which uses tax dollars to depress prices below the cost of production, which put Mexican farmers (and family farms here) out of business overnight, and made them have to find other jobs. Which ironically were supplied by big business here, who literally buses them to their factories. To this day, Smithfield packing had a deal with ice where they won't do a raid in exchange for a number of illegals a month. So guess who they turn in? Immigrants injured on the job, or ones that aren't working fast enough. Next you bankrupt not only the corporation, but the owners (including stockholders) of companies that use illegals to gain a competitive edge. Boom, no one would use them. They are taking advantage of another human by working them illegally for way less pay, and pocketing the difference. Really I think assholes like that should be drawn and quartered.
Welfare is a tricky subject, because some people actually need it. Some do take advantage of it yes, but some cannot live without it. A society is judged by how they take care of their weak and unfortunate. Leaving them to rot and die is one way of dealing with them, thankfully we don't do that here. But some of the people can work. Brian mentioned black ghettos as a particular hotbed for crime and violence, and he isn't wrong. I believe that is caused by overwhelming poverty and despair, and drug additions (which aren't treated). Add in the fact that roughly 150 years ago they were owned as property, used for production without any compensation at all for actual multiple generations, and the fact that until quite recently (and currently) have been greatly discriminated against, that despair is understandable.
Asimov predicted that in the future human labor wouldn't be needed because technology would replace them. We need to actually start considering that possibility. If there is no work to be done, what do humans do? Our monetary system isn't equipped to handle that, and neither is our society. We aren't fully there yet, but most jobs have been distilled down to unskilled labor, and with globalization making all of the working class in the world compete against each other, income inequality will become so severe that all of us will be broke. It might take a generation or two, but capitalism isn't sustainable in the future. Fighting that change is futile, and blaming the first round losers in this is counter productive.
With big money in politics, and with citizens united making huge corporations human, the richest among us can basically run the country. While we fight over pennies, they change obscure laws that make huge changes in how they can do business. And if they mess up, corporate welfare is there to pick up the pieces. This isn't a partisan issue either, the democrats have frigged us just as bad as the big business republicans. This is the actual problem. They don't pay the taxes we do, they profit from other people's labor, and hopefully we can wake up and stop them while we still can. This post is stupidly long, and I apologize for that.
I believe history repeats itself, especially if you didn't learn from it the first time around. Less than 100 years ago, the government used machine guns and even dropped left over ww1 bombs onto striking armed union miners in West Virginia. Although having the numbers, the miners lost against the mine owners and the U.S. military. Note which side they always choose (owners of business). That is not a coincidence, because our founding fathers were all big business. This country is falling apart, some people think it's because of immigrants (prejudice that has happened throughout our nation's history), some think it's the people on welfare sucking our taxes away, some think it's just the eventual spread of globalism and technology. I say it's because the government has been sold to the highest bidder, and they have no concern other than their own profits.
If you want to stop illegal immigration, you don't need to build a damn wall like we're keeping rabbits out of a garden. If you actually want to stop it, you repeal tax cuts to industrial farming and meat processing, which uses tax dollars to depress prices below the cost of production, which put Mexican farmers (and family farms here) out of business overnight, and made them have to find other jobs. Which ironically were supplied by big business here, who literally buses them to their factories. To this day, Smithfield packing had a deal with ice where they won't do a raid in exchange for a number of illegals a month. So guess who they turn in? Immigrants injured on the job, or ones that aren't working fast enough. Next you bankrupt not only the corporation, but the owners (including stockholders) of companies that use illegals to gain a competitive edge. Boom, no one would use them. They are taking advantage of another human by working them illegally for way less pay, and pocketing the difference. Really I think assholes like that should be drawn and quartered.
Welfare is a tricky subject, because some people actually need it. Some do take advantage of it yes, but some cannot live without it. A society is judged by how they take care of their weak and unfortunate. Leaving them to rot and die is one way of dealing with them, thankfully we don't do that here. But some of the people can work. Brian mentioned black ghettos as a particular hotbed for crime and violence, and he isn't wrong. I believe that is caused by overwhelming poverty and despair, and drug additions (which aren't treated). Add in the fact that roughly 150 years ago they were owned as property, used for production without any compensation at all for actual multiple generations, and the fact that until quite recently (and currently) have been greatly discriminated against, that despair is understandable.
Asimov predicted that in the future human labor wouldn't be needed because technology would replace them. We need to actually start considering that possibility. If there is no work to be done, what do humans do? Our monetary system isn't equipped to handle that, and neither is our society. We aren't fully there yet, but most jobs have been distilled down to unskilled labor, and with globalization making all of the working class in the world compete against each other, income inequality will become so severe that all of us will be broke. It might take a generation or two, but capitalism isn't sustainable in the future. Fighting that change is futile, and blaming the first round losers in this is counter productive.
With big money in politics, and with citizens united making huge corporations human, the richest among us can basically run the country. While we fight over pennies, they change obscure laws that make huge changes in how they can do business. And if they mess up, corporate welfare is there to pick up the pieces. This isn't a partisan issue either, the democrats have frigged us just as bad as the big business republicans. This is the actual problem. They don't pay the taxes we do, they profit from other people's labor, and hopefully we can wake up and stop them while we still can. This post is stupidly long, and I apologize for that.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Haha! No need to apologize.
Mick!
TreeHouser
'Cos it's in the news, and it's the In The News thread.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
I don't think that's entirely true.
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