$15/hr minimum wage- what's it mean to you?

None of us are assigned the job we do. And I think that's the difference here. I THINK if two years have gone by and you're still washing dishes, it's your fault.


love
nick

How do you ever develop skills like this? See him scrub and rinse https://youtu.be/ZvzggPjiBzo

Or this guy https://youtu.be/qx-aak2zK_Y

kevin bingham said:

Or this guy https://youtu.be/qx-aak2zK_Y

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This guy rocked it, the other one not so much. I'm not convinced in the quality of the first ones work.

kevin bingham said:

At the end of the day, its hard to judge a man's worth by the job assigned to him.

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A man's worth and the value of his job are 2 different things. The value of a job is determined by 2 factors, what a man is willing to pay AND what another man is willing to work for. That's it.

Agreed. I think it is interesting to look at what our society 'values' most as per what we pay a person. Running a pigskin covered ball back and forth on a field millions of dollars per year. Teaching our children and forming their minds for the future 30K.

Some intensity of thought bought to bare in the posts on this thread. I tend to think of that as a person caring a lot about the (or related) topics.

If so you might be interested in a book, God Wants You To Be Rich by Paul Zane Pilzer. He is an economist that served the Reagan administration and is a self made millionaire. An interesting concept that there is enough abundance for all.

Also I like to respect peoples choices. We are motivated by moving toward what we think of as pleasure and away from what we think of as pain. If a person stays at a minimum wage job in America it is a choice. And there is a reason for it.

sotc said:

A man's worth and the value of his job are 2 different things. The value of a job is determined by 2 factors, what a man is willing to pay AND what another man is willing to work for. That's it.

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I would also add it is determined by what another man is willing to work for. The price of a job can be driven down pretty low when there are hungry people. I presume in the right conditions it could be driven down as low as a bite to eat. That is why people organizing and determining the bottom limit the whole will work for is important.

The world has gone to hell since the 1980's, when I was paying my groundies $20.00 / hour to run ropes, drag brush and tend to my needs in the tree. Minimum wage at the time was about $5.00 bugs. The economy was strong then and work ethic in Ft. Bragg was too.

Work ethic... nobody knows what that means nowadays.

There is enough abundance for all, but an ever increasing wealth gap means that is no longer a possibility for most. We can't all be millionaires when when most of the wealth is held by a tiny percentage.

Also, I would respectfully disagree on the work ethic issue. Both my neighbours leave for work at 05.30 every day, the lad that works for me is always at the yard 15 minutes early, the farms around us are worked double 12 hour shifts for months. Admittedly the farm workers have to be imported from Eastern Europe, but they make good money, at least $15 an hour.

I think with work ethic you can always see the difference between someone who has been working for themselves and if they don't do it they don't get paid and someone who has only worked as a employee and they get a salary. In this job you can always tell unless you start someone young and they don't have any other work history. That way they will not be scared of a work.

Real poverty doesn't exist in the UK or most western countries.
Most of the so called poor I see are as fat as pigs.

Slaughter weight for hogs here is 67 kilo, so most of them are in fact way fatter than pigs.

Obesity is another form of malnutrition. Lack of fresh food. When simple sugar is your only source of calories you end up fat. It's still a symptom of poverty.

It's not a symptom of poverty, it's a symptom of stupidity and indifference, it's because instead of buying cheaper fresh produce and prepare it themselves, they (well some of them anyway) buy ready meals and fast food full of sugar and salt and fat and God knows what.
If you look at a picture of my year at school in 1975 (aged 12) there is maybe one or two kids who were considered fat, by today's standards a bit chubby perhaps. These days you see kids waddling down the street that make you rub your eyes in disbelief!
I saw a figure somewhere about the relative price of food. If you took the average mans weekly wage and fed his family with it in 1970 it would constitute 40% of his wage, in 2015 it's 20% I've probably got the figures wrong, but you get the idea, food is much cheaper now than 40 years ago. It's certainly not malnutrition that's going to kill those kids, it's diabetes and heart disease brought on by overeating. I feel sorry for them.

La becasse said:

... it's because instead of buying cheaper fresh produce and prepare it themselves, they (well some of them anyway) buy ready meals and fast food full of sugar and salt and fat ...

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I disagree. My wife and I point this out a lot. Fast food is quite affordable and doesn't involve work. You also don't have to go to the grocery store, or worry about your produce rotting.


love
nick

The world is starting to get pretty crowded, gonna be hard to look after everyone.

La becasse said:

Real poverty doesn't exist in the UK or most western countries.
Most of the so called poor I see are as fat as pigs.

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If you're comparing first world to third world then yes.

But do you think that its right that one of the richest nations in the world should have so much inequality? It isn't just a question of working a bit harder to break out of poverty either, the vast majority of people who receive state benefits in the UK are also working minimum wage jobs, often on long hours. The low minimum wage is actually subsidising big employers by providing them with plentiful cheap labour, who can't afford to risk loosing their jobs and therefore have no opportunity to get better skilled or educated and get a better job.

That is the reality of modern capitalism for millions of people.

Serves them well, the lazy scumbags!

Supply and demand. With an ever growing over abundance of people I don't see how we are all going to share a comfortable lifestyle equally. Some have said the wealth/abundance is there so that it could be shared. Is that even true? If it is true at this population level then at what point does it become untrue?

In a world overflowing with people and exploding populations in every country I'm not gonna pull someone else's dead weight and 'subsidize' them. Life is tough for some, less so for other, that will never change.

NickfromWI said:

I disagree. My wife and I point this out a lot. Fast food is quite affordable and doesn't involve work. You also don't have to go to the grocery store, or worry about your produce rotting.


love
nick

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Are you missing my point, or am I missing yours?

The world needs ditch diggers and shit shovelers.

We have hungry kids here, some with out health care. Some without good places to live or heat in winter.

All of which is provided by the govt if you need it, most of which is squandered by awful "parents".

One thing we can do is to have the govt take over all of the industry so that the owners cant ship jobs overseas and still have to pay a high wage. That way, the state could manage the whole process. Should work well I would think.

NickfromWI said:

. Fast food is quite affordable and doesn't involve work. You also don't have to go to the grocery store, or worry about your produce rotting. love nick

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Nick, that's appalling and totally wrong! Do not trust others that need to make money in a very competitive market to put your health on their priority list. Even reading the label will not tell you all that has gone into that food.

The most expensive tool you can buy is the one that doesn't work.

Peter said:

If you're comparing first world to third world then yes.

But do you think that its right that one of the richest nations in the world should have so much inequality? It isn't just a question of working a bit harder to break out of poverty either, the vast majority of people who receive state benefits in the UK are also working minimum wage jobs, often on long hours. The low minimum wage is actually subsidising big employers by providing them with plentiful cheap labour, who can't afford to risk loosing their jobs and therefore have no opportunity to get better skilled or educated and get a better job.

That is the reality of modern capitalism for millions of people.

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Here's the deal, you go to school in the UK and you get told again and again that a good education and good exams will help you in life, get you a better job etc. you can heed that advice or like me ignore it and just assume that my own inherent brilliance will become apparent to the world and I would be feted whever I went.
By the time I got to 30 and was still at home with my parents, working as a labourer, sleeping in the same bed I had since I was 12 (although it smelt a bit more of piss) I realised my plan had failed so I took matters into my own hands, saved some money and took a college course in this job. Managed to scratch my way to relative comfort. It is possible to improve yourself later on, but it's harder. Your first (and best) chance is your education, there's no point these people wasting their education then ten years later saying "woe is me, I've got no future" you were told!
If I'm not mistaken tertiary education is still free in the UK (or very heavily subsidised) if you choose to use that opportunity to learn Pottery or Sports Science (like my nephew) you're going to struggle to sell ashtrays or manage a football team.
Many immigrant groups understand this which is why they ensure their children behave at school and do well in exams.
Personally I don't care about inequality (at least the sort we have in the UK) if some guy is 10 or a 1000 times richer than me so what? I have a roof over my head, food in my belly and live my life in relative dignity. The rest is just stuff.