alternatives in land use

I read an interesting article by the Washington Post (!). So I guess 87% of farms are family owned or owned by a single person.

It also said that the small diverse farm is making a comeback. Good deal I think. That means that there is money in it.

For some reason, agriculture is the only profession where you should not make money. I mean, its food right?
 
I have read when you raise wheat you lose more topsoil than the yield of the wheat you take off. Don't know how true that is.

I also read it is really bad to have cattle in your woodlands. You say it can be beneficial, Jim?

Not sure about that. I have some land that has been in production for over 100 years. It produces like it always did. We fertilize now, but farmers have been for a long time. It needs some rotation badly, I will admit. I think I am fighting a disease issue at the present time. Thinking about planting it to grass and grazing it. If I can get my cows paid for, I will be able to take more chances when it comes to management and diversification.

I have read where intensive, short duration grazing has some of the same benefit to forests as a low intensity surface fire. Keeps the underbrush trimmed back and keeps the trees limbed up a ways.

Not sure about hardwood forests though, might be totally different.
 
Hey I'm not saying a debate isn't healthy. I'm saying most of the participants would struggle to grow a half acre garden successfully.

It would be awesome to see farmers switch over to the most ideal practices that eventually make the sky bluer, the grass greener, and the planet happier. New farmers have the luxury of trying to start out that way. A man working the land his whole life with 3 mortgages on the place and overhead that makes our tree business overhead look like a lemonade stand is going to have a real hard time getting the bank on board to be patient and understanding while he revolutionizes the operation. The loan officer at the bank might eat organic, but most likely won't sit back and be patient while the farmer switches over farming practices and can't pay the bank for a few years while he works through the learning curve and adjustment period. Plus he will likely go upside down financially in the mean time and never make it through the transition.

That is a very valid point.

There are programs that can help, but they are very unpopular with the people. Charity to the farmer and what not.

Politics at here and abroad, the banks, and just trying to get the sonofabitch to cash flow can get in the way of progress!
 
I think you are much more optimistic than I about our food system. there are totally slaves working the fields of central California and florida. There is a huge dead zone in the Gulf of mexico. We are running out of water in our aquifer, we are losing our topsoil... the hog farms of North Carolina are disgusting family owned or not. I am all doom and gloom. My wife gets so annoyed with me. Maybe your right and the state of American Agriculture is just dandy. You are making it work for you and that is very comendable.
 
http://www.singingtreedetroit.net/garden/photos/

Here are some pictures of our little patch of heaven. Emily and her partner brought in an extra 10,000$ selling veggies to rich folks. As well as providing us with good veggies. I consider the garden an integral part of our tree service. I can't imagine trying to make an entire living off of selling food but I also can't imagine not having at least a small garden. carrots, swiss chard, and green beans were are niche products at the market this year.
 
That's fantastic, Kevin.

I know a guy that has a farm and tree service. complementary. He can't make it off either one alone, plus he gets materials for the farm.

How much space are you/ she gardening?








I skimmed/ skipped the last two/ three pages.
I would interject that if nobody bitched about things changing, we would still be owning people, putting DDT on stuff, having fires on rivers, working 7 day work weeks, or maybe only 6.5.
 
It's about 1/4 acre. We are in the middle of the city. Planning and spacing is the biggest challenge. Finding the highest paying crops for the space. We did well with hot peppers and basil. We also have a huge strawberry patch Which emily turned into jam and sold on shortcake at the market for descent Money. We calculated she made a few dollars below minimum wage! Lol. Not counting our vegetables and no childcare expenses.
 
We have a bunch of apple trees and peach trees although the peach trees haven't been do ij ng us much good lately.
 
I read an interesting article by the Washington Post (!). So I guess 87% of farms are family owned or owned by a single person.

It also said that the small diverse farm is making a comeback. Good deal I think. That means that there is money in it.

For some reason, agriculture is the only profession where you should not make money. I mean, its food right?

It has gone towards bigger and bigger farms here .
I read a lot of articles about farming in the paper these days, because we have a situation there every 5th farm here is bancrupt, only kept going through the good grazes of the banks.

So there is a lot of debate about wheter as good socialists, the state should step in and save them ( basically pay off their loans for them) or we should just let them die.

After WW2 we had 20,000 farms, today the number is 6,000. They have gone from being diverse farms, with a bit of animal husbandry and crops, to large factories where pigs are stacked on top of each other.
It is not farming anymore, but industry. None the less the zoning laws and pollution rules that go for industry here, do not apply for industrial farming.

We've always had a firm rule that the polluter pays the clean-up bill. Seems only fair.
However, the farms that send nitrogen and phosfor out in the waterways, which are now fairly devoid of life ( Since I've spent the better part of my summers working in those waterways for a decade, this is not hearsay, but something I have seen) then into our tidal zones where the fish and natural vegetation is gone ( We used to have a thriving inner coastal fishery, small boats, actually pretty environmentally friendly, but it is gone because there are no fish left to catch.
Those farms are not made to foot the bill, but susidized instead. Where is the logic.
And we are not talking about producing food to feed the poor inner city folks here, there is no way in hell 6 million Danes can eat the 26 million pigs produced yearly, even if I s the only vegetarian here.

As for my take on whether to save the bancrpt farmers:
It has always been said here between farmers that it is better to buy a new tractor you don't need than to pay taxes.
Our tax system is set up in a way, that if you just keep expanding and buying new shit, so you never show a profit, you won't pay taxes.They went bancrupt because they invested too heavily before the economical crisis, in order to avoid paying taxes.

These guys got a bit carried away with playing that system and lost everything.

I hope they let them fall.
 
Kevin, how did you do your peppers? some sorta of hothouse?

Are you worm composting? standard composting?

Not only no childcare expensed, but time shared and experiences exposed to the kiddo. Boy or girl?
 
All right Kevin, no need to be patronizing. I said the truth is probably between the two extremes. Always is. I never said that the state of American Agriculture is dandy. We can do better. What people dont see is the progress being made. If you want to give your self an ulcer, so be it.

We need to work together, not stand on the corner with a sandwich board saying the world is going to end.
 
Kevin, how did you do your peppers? some sorta of hothouse?

Are you worm composting? standard composting?

Not only no childcare expensed, but time shared and experiences exposed to the kiddo. Boy or girl?

We have a little girl year and a half. We start the peppers indoors under lights. Then move outside to the row covers. We have pretty long days in the summer. It's interesting how the humidity and heat make a difference to how hot the peppers are. This summer was mild and a bit wet. Even the cayennes and habaneros were pretty mild
 
Bob, I have a customer with that in mind. I wonder if wood from the tree can be layered in with chips for a mound to plant on. That's what the potential customer was mentioning.
 
Jim, those pictures make me wish for spring, so I can get the garden and greenhouse started again.
 
Alright, fellers.

The rancher who bought the farm next to me is going to try something this year. He leased his farm ground to an organic farmer in return for grass. Well, the farmer had 4 bypass surgery and got behind this spring, so he is out right now planting a cover crop. I guess it is a mix of turnips and radishes. Maybe some other stuff.

The plan is to graze the tops when it greens up. Not a bad plan because otherwise you have to disc the green stuff under, which is very expensive. If you graze it first you can generally work it in with a cultivator, which requires a lot less time and fuel.

Win/win if it works. Build the soil, graze some cows, and not constantly summerfallow. Summerfallowing is VERY expensive. Spraying is cheaper and does a better job killing weeds.

Some downsides are that it is going to cost like 60,000 to plant 400 acres. You have to square that against the cost of summerfallowing. If the crop does not germinate well the ground will not be covered and the weeds will sprout and make seed.

We have had only 2.5 inches of moisture this year and it is quite dry and late in the year. They might not get a sprout.

It is a very expensive gamble, but could be a good one. No summerfallowing but good grazing for your cows.
 
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Sure. The fellow that bought the farm is not a farmer and hates farming. His only wish is to run cows and put up some hay, but he wanted to sell his irrigated farm and move out of the valley.

A nice farm came up for sale next to me and he bought it. No pun intended! He plans on planting it to grass but needed to get some debt paid off first. A organic grain farmer wanted some more farm ground and had some grass but no cattle. It is not a even trade so when the farmer plants a green plow down crop like a cover crop or peas, the rancher will get to graze that too.

Organic wheat is very expensive right now, some contracts are for almost 20 dollars a bushel so most organic producers are looking for extra acres. It is not organic now but its sort of a scam getting it certified so you can be producing organic in two years instead of three now.

My father in law plants turnips in New Zealand to graze his sheep on in the winter. They plant them in compacted soil very shallow so most of the root is above ground.
 
How can an organic farmer just farm land that has been farmed conventionally?
Here there is a "clean up" period of 4 years before you can call the produce organic.
 
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