Snap cuts... How big do you go?

Hey all,

I'm wondering on a vertical coniferous type tree, how big of a snap cut are you comfortable with? I've always limited myself to pieces I could either throw or push off the spar unassisted. The other day I had a no clean up job, and was trying to figure what was faster, snap cuts, or lobbing off big pieces with a standard type notch and pull rope and or wedges? Does anyone trust the snap cut with big pieces, possibly breaking them with a pull rope from the ground? It's always seemed like a bad idea, but the other day it could have saved me some time.
On a side note, what is your SOP for locating underground utilities on jobs where you are dropping large pieces of wood? Thanks

Brock

Magic cut. No pushing, no pulling.

If in doubt, 811. I bid my jobs, so ask about utilities then. I broke a water line at the top edge of an abruptly steep hillside with a spar. You don't find out until later, sometimes. It wasn't Hollywood.

I don't worry about utilities other than leech fields and those aren't located. If you have room to flip logs out that's probably faster. If I'm in the bucket I've snapped 15' logs, maybe bigger, fly up to the top, wiggle and push our twist off

Thanks Sean, how big do you go with that cut? I can see how you wouldn't be fighting your hinge wood with that cut, but also looks like it would take just as long as a proper face cut-back cut.
I broke a drain line to the sewer a few weeks back that was about 8 inches below ground (also not Hollywood). Easy fix, because it was only 8 inches down, but it got me thinking. I think around here 811 wants some kind of money if they have to leave the street to locate utilities. Not sure how much it costs?

Brock, you're intentionally doing an easier job with the full dutchman than a conventional face-cut, but that's small potatoes. Absent is fighting the pull line out from under the chunk, tying the pull line on the climb line, pulling up two ropes, tying the pull line. making sure your climb line is clear of the next chunk, coordinating for a pull...rinse. repeat.

P.S. you're groundie pulling on the rope to bend a bunch of wood fibers until they hopefully break free, while your climber is standing in spurs maybe nipping at said bending wood fibers...won't be pulling on the rope, rather chipping, raking, etc. Climber won't be nipping, just cut it like a snap-cut. move down spar. Magic cut, move down spar, magic cut, move down spar.

Thanks guys. That does sound like magic! Waiting for that pull rope to come back up can be agonizing. On a straight fir around 24 inch diameter how long of a piece would you trust the magic cut with? A leech field could get pretty shitty

Seems to me that if you can assess the lean/ plumbness, absent wind, physics is physics. Its a matter of how much trunk can stand up on a deep undercut without sagging and/ or barberchairing.

8' easy.

Gotta know when you've undermined enough, rationally/ thoughtfully. If you wait to see sag/ a binding kerf, you're way deep with a lot of tension built up.

As with drop-cuts on limbs having the second cut closer in to the trunk, MC release cut lower than first horizontal.

Props to Gord for demoing the Magic Cut back on TB.

On the larger limbs, I do a coos bay type snap cut ... they pop off just like a head leaner.

Thanks again guys. Do you have the link to that video from Gord? Tried to find it on TB and failed. I'm excited to try the magic cut. Makes good sense! I'll send you your cut of the money I save Sean!

I'll PM my address.


No luck. Its actually very straight forward. No illusion or anything. experiment with a stick, or a short log somehow held in place. It will make more sense. You won't have the weight working the same way. Maybe just cut it up, then add a little weight with a rock/cinder block, etc.

If you try on too short of a log, or your snap cuts aren't as they need to be in that particular situation, you just push it like a regular spar snap cut, but don't have to fight it to the edge, nor direct it. The facecut/ snipe/ whatever does give directional control. Not like a proper hinge, but physics is physics.

Add another one to the bag of tricks. Magic cut. I like it.

I dislike the snap cut and the magic cut. It's my feeling that you're just asking to loose a piece out of the intended direction.

Keep it simple and fast. Undercut to at least 60%, opening (diagonal up or down), small back cut. No rope. Works a charm, and if that's too slow, your bidding your jobs a bit thin.

Got to love physics when it works for you. Thanks for the other perspective Jed. With either cut, the key seems to be the deep face cut...

Checks in the mail Sean

In my way of looking at it, you're doing most of the Magic Cut without the bypass. I want a hinge I can count on, or no hinge. On bigger pieces, and especially if you're double cutting or reaching across, you have a much easier time doing a full bypass cut for the MC, than ensure you have a strong hinge on both sides, not accidentally thick or cut thru.

Much easier to set two bypass corners accurately.

Also, you have to bring that hinge up pretty thin and even, more room for something to go wrong.

I can't say which might be more likely to barberchair between a deeply cut proper facecut and Magic Cut, A consideration in rare cases like a huge maple that was leaning, but with a vertical spar section.


I would say that the MC is a bit quicker than a standard face (depends on your face-cut accuracy, climber to climber). I think you are simplifying things with the MC. Less room for errors when used judiciously.

Are there times for a hinge, yes, of course. Vertical spars. you can tip it 360*. Off vertical, a proper hinge is the way, at times.


Just my opinion, nothing more.



I would say that its worth pointing out that with a hinge, when you have a piece that doesn't want to go over (for whatever reason), rather than thinning the whole hinge down, gut/ tickle the middle of the hinge to a greater or lesser degree. Again, statistically safer over years.

...or gut the hinge before the backcut...since we're keeping it simple.

I have t used Sean's magic cut, but I will use a similar one without the bypass, the main thing being to undermine the COG aka center of gravity.

You do loose directional control since you have less hinge wood. But sometimes all you need is "that way". It sure beats pushing or pulling, and the additional labor involved.

I've done 20 or 25' at least. Just start small, as mentioned the physics apply, and if done right it should work regardless of size. Dont let it stall. That sux.

P.s. I've really be digging making my upper cut of the two face cuts first, it let's you look through that kerf at your next lower cut. Way less issues with accidental bypasses.

Whoa... a west coaster admitting to making the angled cut first! Thanks Evan.

Brock Mayo said:

Whoa... a west coaster admitting to making the angled cut first! Thanks Evan.

Click to expand...

He he, I never knew there was a thing with that. I just watch and learn and keep using what works good for me.

And to the original question, I only use the snap cut up to what I can lift and toss without too much work.

At a certain point I cut straight Accross and use the bar to work the round back towards my side and slide it off, I'm talking about 1-2 firewood lengths here and wide.

I think even a deep hinge has more control than a snap cut when the piece is huge, as soon as that snap breaks it could go sideways.

I don't think it really is a East/West thing, just trying to bring back that rivalry from the 90's rap scene. I've met a lot of people that feel quite strongly about the flat cut having to be made first.

Sounds pretty close to what I do most of the time Evan.