Valid Drivers License shines like a college degree these days.

I always thought being a groundie was just the apprenticeship part of this job. If you are competant you should move up or graduate from groundie to climber. It might take years, but i would guess a lot of groundies move up or move on.
There are some groundies that become climbers, but most ground guys stay on the ground and move up from bitch to chipping, using a chainsaw, knowledge of tools, lowering, rigging, felling, then salesman or crew leader, or arborist. In between knowledge of tools and felling ask if he wants to go up some small removals or trims, if so then you might have a groundie that will move up to a climbing position. Most of the time they say hell no. Or work in this business because they need a job
 
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How much do you think he brings in per hour versus how much he puts out? There is no absolute ceiling. If he can make you $300 profit, you wouldn't think twice about paying him $100/ hour. Very arbitrary numbers, of course, to make a point. $20-25 into his Gross Pay...remember how you pay him 25, costs 40. He earns 25/ hour, gets $21.63 net, or whatever. Its the $21.63 that pays his rent, and the $40 that comes out of your pocket. The other numbers are just a base number, IMO.

If he is not one to delegate, or record hours, high level blah blah blah, and you have a 4 man crew, what are his best strengths, and what can be done to use those to his best ability, along with removing challenging tasks? What about an actual punch in/ punch out time clock for everyone? My old boss used one, probably a hand me down from a family business. Don't know if its useful. We had to hand write in things, like lunch break, or if someone arrived directly at the jobsite from home. Cross referencing others' time cards helps everyone fill in the blanks. Or maybe a timeclock app on your phone????

Is there a guy that's better with the daily checklist/ inspection/ prep (whatever you do in your morning), while Brawny does brawny stuff? Play to his strengths. Is he really good on maintenance of anything in particular (saws, chipper, trucks?) or is he just brawn?

My ex-employee Harvey was just brawn. Safe enough. He grunted a lot... I couldn't of taken using the Sena comms with him. Haha.



Do you think he has a learning disability or something else going on that he doesn't do the adult stuff well?

I might like the time clock idea, not so much for him but for a certain climber who consistently rounds up. As far the ground man goes. . . I'm reasonably certain that he can't read at all which makes some of the "responsible" stuff in life harder.
Additionally, I've never made anyone stop the clock for lunch breaks before. They work hard enough to get paid for it.
 
Augie, if you get your guys thru temp agencies, why is it tough to get workers with DLs, aren't they all pre qualified with a DL?
 
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Aug is fine, "Augie" puts me into some sort of pre-murder mindset (not really but for sake of explanation through hyperbole). I'm not telling you not to call me Augie, I'm just saying that you should reserve it for those times when you want to annoy me. : )

No, I don't get my guys through the temp service, I find them and then send them to get signed up at the temp service to work for me. The people who work for me seek me out, probably the same for you or anyone else on here. Except for the person who occasionally runs an ad for a climber etc.
 
Got it, Aug.8)

Wow, Ive never heard of doing it that way. Why do you do it that way since it does cost you more per hour, no?
 
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I don't have the capital it would take to pay the workers comp in advance like they want it in Oregon. I would have to pay in advance one dollar for every three dollars that I spent on payroll the previous year. Temp service takes care of workers comp and all of the record keeping and taxes that come out of each person's check etc. etc. technically the employee is theirs and they are responsible for safety meetings also.
 
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That's how they spin it anyway but when OSHA gets involved they tell you that safety meetings are your responsibility. It can be a bit shifty. The employee is technically not yours but works for someone else but yet you're responsible for the safety meetings. Actually I'm confused because of a recent debacle that went down with another tree service. Not my company. And so I'm doing safety meetings and so is the temp service.
 
First questions out of my mouth when a guy wants a job is do you have a valid and insurable DL and can you pass pre employment and random drug screens? Both of those will be checked so just tell me. No to either = no job. Most of my rigs are CDL so I am mandated to check. I learned a long time ago that guys that can't keep a drivers license have too many other issues that affect my business negatively and I get irritated when a driver needs a day off and I end up having to shuttle rigs back and forth while the non driver sits in the passenger seat! Finding CDL drivers is even worse the just regular drivers! I've had guys call up and tell me they will revolutionize my company, but they can't drive....... or climb... Go revolutionize someone else's company, thanks. I am very picky about who I hire now, I'll go short handed for months rather hire people that don't impress me from the get go, and bragging rarely impresses me. Mild demeanor, clean cut, friendly and confidant, speed through efficiency, those are the guys that grab me.
As to wages, I tell them if they make me money, I will make them money. I don't really hire groundmen anymore, if they don't have the desire to learn to climb and at least prune small trees, I move on, I want everyone to be able to climb so they can spare each other, 40-50 hours a week of climbing month in and month out takes a toll on a guy. Every year I try to take the guys fishing at least once and do Summer and Winter dinners for the families. I've had pizza delivered to their homes in the evening on some of our brutally long days. Heck, guess I am rambling now, I basically just hire people I would want to hang with.
 
That last sentense is just how I roll, Willie.
Spending so much time with people, you gotta get on well or it becomes a drag.
 
Really good post. Work is so much better when you enjoy who you are around and can laugh at the insanity this job sometimes entails.
 
Willie is a smart man. Camaraderie with your mates on a crew often seems to have a different thing going with the boss. Not necessarily a bad thing, but Willie seems to have overcome that aspect to a good extent.
 
For the most part once I got a top rep for treework with the Forest Service, I got to pick my crew. I did it pretty much the same way Willie speaks of.
 
Absolutely, personality is a prerequisite for most jobs-tree work included. I appreciate good reliable workers that are friendly and to an extent sociable to my clients, I don't mind seeing them have a brief chat with a client as it builds rapport for the business without my input ( I can only handle so much customer interaction whilst onsite- on top of phone calls, emails, quotes etc)
 
Will do. I'll post back here when he has the raise too. This particular guy, I can't imagine as a climber though. I've tried putting him in leadership positions before but he's a head down, bulldozer type guy who will allow himself to be led by anyone which isn't what I'm looking for in a leader. Incredible lowering man, excellent driver, backing up etc. Still though, I've had younger take-charge guys that weren't qualified for the charge they were taking and he will yield to them even with his seniority. All this guy wants to do is work. He says he loves dismantling/processing large piles of brush. Anything remotely resembling paperwork or adult level responsibility with that sort of thing isn't his strong suit. He can't be relied on to keep track of or turn in his own hours. If I didn't guard his financial welfare he would probably not even get paid. So many times I've been trying to get him to remember what his hours were and he just tells me, don't worry about it it's on me, just because of the mental effort it takes to keep track of it. I pay him extra when there's a question because I'm afraid of being struck by lightning if I take advantage of such an honest gentle hard-working soul.


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Man.... if i didn't know better, id SWEAR you were talking about me.
No bullshit, either.
Only difference is, i need to get with someone around here that i can start off with as free help for on the weekends....
(My weekdays are for my wife/kids/house/job....in that order)
 
point free/accident free-class A CDL with doubles/triples/tanker....had my share of "partying'" years ago.....not so much any more......(got 2 girls' weddings and college to pay for, so i do not do anything to mess up my license)....only vise i have is chewing.

And maybe a cold Sweetwater 420 or 2 on a Saturday afternoon.

Sound to good to be true?

Well fortunately for SOMEONE, its all true.
Just need to hook up with someone similar as i, looking for a future climber to take in.
 
Stevo, I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush here about you, big tree companies, or weekend warriors. Just here to give a few constructive suggestions.

To me, it sounds like you have a great attitude and the credentials to transport some heavy equipment and trees around. It may be difficult to find a legitimate outfit who works every weekend who is willing to train, most companies' staff need personal time to handle their stuff as well. There are some guys who do good work on the weekends, but they probably need to climb and produce, not necessarily train a new climber. If it were in your cards, maybe you could find a way to change your schedule to take a few weekdays off to commit to a tree service. In theory with a good company, the more you commit to them the more they would commit to you. Assuming you'd eventually like to leave your job and join them for full-time tree work, you may find someone willing to train you while getting paid instead of offering free help on the weekends.

There is a shortage of good climbers and there is a shortage of guys who are willing to work hard AND have a valid CDL. Good luck!
 
Well said, Big Twig.

Being a good climber first, goes so far to being a production tree climber. Doing recreational tree and rock/ gym climbing will develop this. You can take climbing/ cutting courses.

Get time on a rope, and develop work positioning skills while rec climbing/ non cutting climbing. You could say things to the effect of "if I wanted to cut this, how would I position myself (in a relaxed, comfortable, low energy way)?" and then see what you can do. Good work positioning is also crucial for advancing your climb line. Its amazing how much more you can reach by standing up tall in your climbing system (slight negative lanyard/ climbing line angle), as compared to hanging down, sitting in your harness.

A CDL goes a long way for anybody with a bucket truck, as so many are CMVs.
 
Thanks man. Appreciate the reply. Really good advice. I'm kinda getting the vibe amongst arborists', that, that is exactly it.
I'm gonna work on some "shift changes" at my 9-5'r to see if I could swing BOTH.
Might have to "create" a position/shift, but have a passion, and need to make a transition.
Again, thank you for the reply. That's really all I was trying to get here.

Have a good year.

V.
 
No problem. Best of luck this year to you as well. Stick around this is a great forum, we can all learn something here.
 
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