How Do You Respond?

Well, weigh out your options, figure out which company suits you best. My contact info is on top of my invoice so don't hesitate to contact me with any questions should you decide we are the best fit for you.




I've said it a thousand times.
 
Ive also said many times... "I price my work so that I can afford to have the right people and equipment on the job and allow ourselves ample time to do a safe and thorough job. I try not to price things so low that we are hurried and rushed to get the job done in order to meet our necessary numbers. My price allows us to work in a productive, yet safe manner".

Rather then bash the other guy and curse his numbers to the customer, I just try to justify my own. In my mind Im saying "That cocksucker is as broke now as when he started 25 years ago because he works for nothing".
 
Ive also said many times... "I price my work so that I can afford to have the right people and equipment on the job and allow ourselves ample time to do a safe and thorough job. I try not to price things so low that we are hurried and rushed to get the job done in order to meet our necessary numbers. My price allows us to work in a productive, yet safe manner".

Rather then bash the other guy and curse his numbers to the customer, I just try to justify my own. In my mind Im saying "That cocksucker is as broke now as when he started 25 years ago because he works for nothing".

Very well said.
 
Last time that happened was on a custom trailer I priced, he got a price that was less than half of mine from a different mfg. I said "Wow...well there you go." I wasn't going to defend it, but he wouldn't stop talking... finally got him off the phone.
 
Ive also said many times... "I price my work so that I can afford to have the right people and equipment on the job and allow ourselves ample time to do a safe and thorough job. I try not to price things so low that we are hurried and rushed to get the job done in order to meet our necessary numbers. My price allows us to work in a productive, yet safe manner".

Rather then bash the other guy and curse his numbers to the customer, I just try to justify my own. In my mind Im saying "That cocksucker is as broke now as when he started 25 years ago because he works for nothing".


Yes, that is excellent.
 
Ive also said many times... "I price my work so that I can afford to have the right people and equipment on the job and allow ourselves ample time to do a safe and thorough job. I try not to price things so low that we are hurried and rushed to get the job done in order to meet our necessary numbers. My price allows us to work in a productive, yet safe manner".

Rather then bash the other guy and curse his numbers to the customer, I just try to justify my own. In my mind Im saying "That cocksucker is as broke now as when he started 25 years ago because he works for nothing".

Awesome answer!
 
I make no apologies for my price or others. I'm picking up a lot of jobs this year that were booked by other 'companies' and never done. Suprise, suprise, often these jobs are priced really cheap, by the guy that never came back to do it.
 
How do you respond?


"Wow thats a lot, the other guy was half". Regarding the response after just handing over a bid.

8)


I would say to check all the insurances and take the risk, as mostly guys that come in at half the price are not bidding apples to apples, giving the same quality, service, and predictability that I demand to ensure safety, first and foremost for everyone. That guy may know what it takes to make himself enough money to live. I know what it takes to have the skills and equipment to do the job safely, professionally, and at a top-notch caliber. If he suits your needs, go for it, jump right on that, and be happy you got it done way too cheaply. If they aren't your match, our quality, value, and customer satisfaction speak for itself. Past customers have made out by going cheap, but mostly they the next time they come back and realize our value is quite high, though we will rarely be the low bid.

In casual conversation, I bring up that my guys have access to my shop and property and house, actually, where my daughter lives. These are the guys that I bring to their home, not some standing outside Home Depot guy, or the meth mouth groundie guy trying to figure out where the money is going to come from so he can go see his guy.

Luckily, I have never had a theft issue from employees, ever. Knock wood. Not to scare them, but to bring in the reality of some shady tree guys. I was at the Stihl dealer the other day and ran into a cheap competitor. Two of the crew were there. One had meth teeth, from what I could see.
 
Ok let's have another look at this, this sort of thread pops up from time it time on forums and the usual response is "the other guys must be pikeys" "sell the fact you're really professional" etc
It just may be that the others have better equipment or are more efficient or have looked at the job and have reckoned they can do it in less time than you, charge less AND still make money,and they might be right!
 
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  • #13
I like it a lot, chris.

Hasnt happened in a while, though something made me think of it. Just curious tis why i started the thread. Most of the time you get the feeling from the start, that you just wasted $15 in fuel and 45 minutes of your life with the person anyways.

A guy last night got me going. Looking up at this monster oak over his house telling me i can just drop limbs and they should fall right there no problem. Ive seem to lost my patients so i start getting silly with these kinds of people. It was fun, i scurried out as fast as i could. He signed the paper last night, then called this morning canceling. Lol go figure, "something came up". I walked out not wanting to do it anyway so it worked out great. :lol:

Sometimes i can be that guy who is half, who knows. With the upgrade in iron last year i feel i can be lower at times, and still pull that higher hourly. Its cool, what ever it is it is. Im not good with on the spot come backs so tis why i asked.
 
Could be, La Bec.

A lot of loggers turned residential tree service/ pick-up truck tree guy here. I"ll drop trees in tight places, too, as I've worked away from buildings and felled lots of Rotten trees, so most residential trees are in fine shape for felling, especially with the ton of doug-fir around here. That's often a loggers main advantage, IMO, over someone only skilled and experienced at residential dismantles.

People that will take the firewood as partial payment usually aren't offering the same low impact and other fringe benefits, IMO. That's where some people are making up the difference, breaking down their bodies for $150/ cord cash, maybe $200.

My take is that if you bring in big iron, it doesn't drive the value down, a crane's low impact actually increases it. Inefficiency doesn't drive the value up, either. Bringing 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars to a job should drive your hourly though the roof, IMO. What about stay at market value, rather than lower, and use the iron to drive up profit?
 
Sure, buying iron should make you more money or why bother?
I guess I'm trying to say that cheaper does not necessarily mean sub standard.
If you keep losing jobs on price and you want to console yourself with your perceived professionalism and the others are yahoos you could be kidding yourself.
Ps this is in no way directed at Brendonv, it's a general thing.
 
You could fairly easily show examples where better equipped makes for a quicker job, but looking at Brendon's set up, I don't think that is what is being discussed. Are we talking about a few dollars more or less one way or another, or a substantially cheaper estimate given by another company? If someone is at least basically equipped and has been in business and pretty much knows what the going rates are, then someone comes along and says they can do it for quite a bit less, I haven't found the cause to be more iron, instead, sloppy work. I looked at a job last winter to remove around twenty large Pines, and the customer was specific about the small hardwood trees being saved as much as possible. It was a lot that was being offered for sale. The estimate they accepted to do the work was a little more than half of what I gave. I was kind of blown away because I know the next door neighbor and had done work on their place to their satisfaction, and they are good friends with the people selling the land and had made the recommendation. When I looked at the job after it was done, there wasn't a hardwood tree left standing, everything had been crushed. In the end I'm not sure how much that mattered to the owner, but doing it that way was not what they told me was acceptable. Instead of a crane for cautious removals, I took it from the tracks that appeared in the dirt that the company that had done the work, used a large excavator to push or pull everything over. Mass destruction was the result! The job also called for total cleanup, and the logs are still there after getting on four months. Not stacked up ready to be hauled away either, just left where they fell with the limbs removed. The customer received just what they paid for, which i think is way more often the norm when reasonable estimates are given and someone goes with a lot lower price.
 
Sean: Man, I'm laughing out loud at your perspicacity. Willie (SOTC) will tell you, at most job-bids in Southern Oregon, when the customer asks how much the job is going to cost, the tree guy's first response is generally, "Well now, that all just depends.... for one thing: how much to you like that fence?" You're as right as rain about the logger turned arbo guy. Man, there's a ton of them in our neck of the woods. The really funny thing about me, is that, the company that I work for takes heavy advantage of the fact (quite apart from the fact that I consider myself to be an amateur faller) that I routinely fall trees that other guys would tend to climb. Having said that, I'll confess that the tree that I was falling spit the wedge I was driving--I only had one in there like an ASS!--and started to set back HARD. It's only by the grace of God that I was able to ram my axe in there which was certainly the only thing that prevented the house from being smashed. (My hinge was cut-up way too fine to have held it if my back-cut had fully closed, because I had sawn my face in too deep, and my back-cut was pretty shallow). Thank you, thank you God. And yes, I must agree: the cheap guy (yours truly) is not usually the best guy.

Now about Meth-mouth. I came pretty close (many, many years ago) to trying it myself, but never did. Again... Thank you God. But here's the thing: if you check-out the Wikipedia page on methamphetimine, it will tell you that "meth-mouth," is actually not caused from meth itself, but from contributing factors of the lifestyle. Who knew? Hitler, (it said) did meth, and I think a bunch of other famous people have been on it. That stuff's been around a while. Some Japanese guy invented it forever ago. Who knew? But yeah, the guys I've known who have been on it, have all, for the most part, pretty much sucked at their job.
 
In my area home owners tend to "slip in their standards" for how they wanted the job to go, it always starts off "not a twig of another tree or a flower pedal bruised" and ends up "can you just drop the whole tree in the driveway and I'll cut it up later". In my view, I prefer to offer and perform the best work for the customer, but they usually don't want it, I guess that leaves them open to low ball quotes.
 
As soon as you start justifying your price it sounds like your making excuses IMO.

9 times out 10 the low bidder will do an perfectly good job, at least as far as the client is concerned.

I will negotiate on price, but there has to be something in it for me, ie leaving chips on site, paying cash, anything other than straight discounting.

I want to build a reputation for being on the expensive side, but 100% reliable. People will pay extra for peace of mind, especially through referrals. Iv been in my current location 5 years, still losing lots of work on price, but I am building a core of clients that are willing to pay extra to have me and recommend me to their friends.

So to answer your question, say nothing, your wasting your breath, save it for a client who cares.
 
As soon as you start justifying your price it sounds like your making excuses IMO.

9 times out 10 the low bidder will do an perfectly good job, at least as far as the client is concerned.

I will negotiate on price, but there has to be something in it for me, ie leaving chips on site, paying cash, anything other than straight discounting.

I want to build a reputation for being on the expensive side, but 100% reliable. People will pay extra for peace of mind, especially through referrals. Iv been in my current location 5 years, still losing lots of work on price, but I am building a core of clients that are willing to pay extra to have me and recommend me to their friends.

So to answer your question, say nothing, your wasting your breath, save it for a client who cares.

Lot of good stuff there.:thumbup:
 
And sometimes it is the equipment that makes the difference.

I did a cat rescue two days ago...went well, owner paid the $280 and the neighbor (where the cat had holed up) wanted an estimate on taking some big limbs from an oak (40"DBH) that is surrounded by their deck. No limbs to rig from overhead, will have to be fishpoled if I do it. Plus he wanted a removal of a sweetgum about 60 feet high that was growing over the house.

He told me he had a quote from Ace Tree to do the removal of limbs, gum tree and another holly including cleanup for $1500 (they needed to remove a holly, 30') to get their bucket truck to the tree...a bucket was the best way to do it. (the holly already had a big root starting under the driveway and would eventually rupture it...removing it was a bonus for the owner).

I told him for me to do the work the oak limbs would be about $800 to get them down and the gum would be $400...at least $1200 for what he wanted. And that was with no cleanup.

I told him he had a good deal with Ace. Also advised him that he didn't want that 14-16" diameter limb cut all the way back to the trunk, that the open wound (would be about 20" at least at the trunk) would likely invite rot. He appreciated that input, said Ace had not discussed that aspect with him. Now he has some questions to ask them anyway.

It was going to be a tough job for me with no good TIP. We all won. He did say he wants me to bid on some other trees in the back yard later.

Phone just rang...another cat is meowing my name...about 3 miles from where I was on Thursday.
 
...I like that...why try to beat a solid bid from a bucket when it is really their kind of work, owner appreciates you and will probably call in the future. Niche markting for me is back and side yards w / out crane and bucket acces.
 
For me, bucket inaccessible jobs and low-impact make me money. Many other companies here will work cheaper. I think I provide very good value on removals, as a package that includes more than the tree going away. For pruning, I had one of my competitors tell me that he was thinking of subbing it out to me as a C.A. that does it properly and spurlessly, as his guys are butchers. Even for simple ladder-access crowns on firs, they spur up and spur down. That guy had a guy almost cut off his thumb at work, and had a climber flip off the top of a spar to the ground.

To me, I'd pay an extra 20% to have something dangerous done right and dependably, without concern for damage to people or property.

All that said, its the same thing that many/ most of you do, too. Its not that I'm special.
 
As soon as you start justifying your price it sounds like your making excuses IMO.

.

I disagree. When the client doesn't care, they usually thank you for your time and you never hear from them again. If they are asking you about the price difference, you still have a foot in the door. They're trying to sort out the range in price and what causes that, in some cases. That's your time to sell work. Saying nothing when they are asking you a question, and turning your back to an inquisitive potential customer is a great way to go broke.

If a person gets quotes from 2 tree companies that came strongly recommended to them, and you act like a cock, you can guarantee that will get back to whoever gave you a recommendation. See if they call you again after they raved about you to their co-worker then you turned around and ignored an honest question and walked away from them. Not to mention, they ask you a simple question about pricing, you ignore them and walk away, and the first company doesn't show up..... You just lost work that probably went to you by default.

Justifying your pricing is a must. We are business men. This is business. Acting as though the customer is a minion that doesn't rank highly enough to get a moment of your thoughts will surely ruin your business, regardless of the quality of your work. This is just my thoughts though, and maybe Im wrong. Ive been wrong before.
 
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