More HH questions from a first time SRT'er

Ok, here we go...

1. Rope
I only have my 1/2" XTC fire...it's quite bouncy, what other ropes are you chaps using? I like the feel of the thicker ropes, so 11.7 would probably be the thinnest I'd be happy on. I started using Tachyon in Bermuda this summer and liked it, anyone know how it works SRT? Any other ropes you are keen on?

2. Attachment at bottom of tree
I tied off my rope to my porty, it or a fig8 would make a good rescue system...how else do folks tie off the rope, yet still have it available for rescue? (Other than Nick's setup he showed a couple weeks ago, the one you cut)

3. How much rope to leave on the ground
Once I've tied on my HH, how much rope do you pull through to leave 'dangling' as you climb up? I gues you have to figure if you are going to limbwalk and use a 2:1 or 3:1 at some point? Or do you just pull rope until you have half and half with the mid point going over the 'TIP'

4. Switch to DdRT
Do you add another biner to your bridge and terminate the rope on that or some other way? Do you pull all your remaining rope up and find the bitter end to tie on? Could be a lot of rope to pull up...
Guess I'll go watch Nick's video again...

5. The VT and Going down
a) I seem to be ok on 5 wraps 1 braid for the VT it's pretty tight, is there any chat on how much pressure the VT takes vs the compressing action of the oxan in the lower hole, should one put slightly less reliance on the VT, perhaps try and share it more with the oxan?

b) How have you all felt about the initial 'break' of the knot to begin going down after hanging for a while. Seems like the VT is good and firm, the first 'break' is a bit of a moment, definitely have my other hand below for control...comments?

I put my rope about 30' up an elm this afternoon and went up and down 20' or so...it certainly feels a bit wierd to only be hanging on one leg of rope.

I am using a prussick and a couple of slings for a foot loop...the prussick (a distel) is above the HH VT...I have a biner clipped at waist level in the sling then goint to my bridge as a backup, it pretty much stays slack but is there if something went a bit wierd with the HH knot anytime on the way up

So...interesting, fun, wish I had someone to play with who's done this before!

Answered number 2 myself...went and re-read the base tie SRT thread already here...!

My fav rope is the Fly.

Poison ivy works well with the hh.

bonner1040 said:

Poison ivy works well with the hh.

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yep, 11.7

Poison hyvee for me.

Calamine is the pink, really hiviz coloring, iirc

I use Vortex which is a tad heavy but has great grip, I use a krab in the eye most of the time and normally just throw my rope over the TIP then just half hitch and clip lower down the tree.

I am constantly swapping between SRT and old school whilst in the tree with the HH, that's the good thing about it.

Glad to hear you are giving the HH a try, Fiona. I feel it is the best tool for professional tree workers currently available. Get yourself a knee ascender or just double foot your Pantin as it will work better with the HH than having something above with a foot loop.

1. Unless you are doing large trees where the rope's weight becomes an issue, stay with fat ropes. Tachyon works fine as does Imori and Vortex.

2. Don't over-stress about base rescue systems. With the HH you will have the same self-rescue ability you have always had. It is most important that you can totally trust your base tie, no matter what.

3. Rope on the ground will depend on what needs to be done. Start with more than you think you will need until you get a feel what that will be.

4. If you are going to switch to DdRT, use a top tie. It will make the change much easier up top. I almost never use DdRT anymore, but when I do I just clip back to my bridge ring.

5. Use the knot that Paul recommended and tie it tight. It should be hard to move until you put your body weight on it and bounce a few times to set it. Play with it a bit, it should break smooth and not be jerky.

It is hard to get things like this right with no help on sight, so don't give up, just keep asking questions.

David

Thanks all.
Very early days, I can already see the potential for SRT in some jobs I have coming up where it will be very difficult to set a friction saver from the ground or isolate a branch for Drt, only problem is the work area is WAY up there! Bit nerve racking for being on one rope all of a sudden...I think the extra lanyard might come out to play for peace of mind.

Been going back to search out and read some of the old threads, they make way more sense now I actually HAVE a HH.

Thanks Nick and Dave for your videos and pictures, they are very helpfull!

I have never hung by one rope, so far.

Let me rephrase that. I've only rappelled down a single rope - never worked off one.

Yeah...its a wierd sensation inside your head after all those years of looking at two ropes...

Bermy said:

Yeah...its a wierd sensation inside your head after all those years of looking at two ropes...

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Yes it is! I like Srt and use it when it seems logical but still switch over to Drt more than Srt. Of course that is where the HH shines making it so easy to change Drt to Srt to Drt.

It's the rope hiding on the other side that got me at first... Not necessarily being on one rope... Essentially, you are on one rope Ddrt... just two legs of it...

MY issue with most of the harware based base ties is the weight on the downhill side of the rope. It can create a false sense of tightness in the climbing line, as well as make slack tending a bear.

I have never needed a rescue, and dont intend to. Tying the butterfly knots is something I do just because there is no reason not to. I would just as soon climb SRT with no plan for a base rescue as I would climb DRT.

Like dave said, dont worry about it, just tie two butterfly knots and know that if you need it its there and its a whole lot better than nothing. All the effort that goes into setting up a friction device based system is wasted energy IMO.

Glad to see another SRTer!

Bermy said:

... only problem is the work area is WAY up there! Bit nerve racking for being on one rope all of a sudden...I think the extra lanyard might come out to play for peace of mind.

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Ya, be careful, you might break the rope, 100% load and all.

Don't think Problem, think opportunity for the 1:1 ascent, without fighting friction at a friction saver, to really be advantageous.

Fiona, do you know about the Secret Weapon system? If you are really much more comfy at a high height on DdRT, SW has the advantage of the basal tie, non isolated, lowerable anchoring system, 1:1 ascent, and DdRT working.

Bermy said:

Yeah...its a wierd sensation inside your head after all those years of looking at two ropes...

Click to expand...

This is true! But give it some time and you will come to love being able to reach your hitch because there is never anything in the way. You will also notice that you can spin while suspended without having anything to untwist. Climbing with the Hitch Hiker, in SRT mode, has a free and natural feeling blended with ruggedness and safety and the same one handed smooth control you have become used to in DdRT.

Dave

Thanks for the encouragement guys

I have watched the secret weapon video again...will watch Nick's SRT/Drt switch over again...will have another test climb with a better TIP and try moving around the tree.
I take the advice about all the palaver at the bottom of the tree, I have enough kit to set up the two butterfly knot and fig 8 thingy, nice and simple....anyway I need my porty for actual rigging!

Has anyone ever gone for an unexpected slide with the HH? I must say it seems very positive once you get it all set.

Another question, have you all found that you are upping the minimum size of your TIP now that the weight is double instead of just your regular weight?
My first go, I got my rope over a branch I normally wouldn't think twice about for Drt, but I did hesitate a bit with the SRT...comments?
Don' laugh, I know I weigh as much as a cup of spit, but it's all relative

The opposite, since I set my line over multiple crotches with plenty of deflection I tie in in on ridiculously small branches.

The reliability and consistency of the grip with the HH is so good it is easy to get complacent and allow your hitch to become looser than is safe. I have a lot of hours on the HH and have never taken an unexpected slide. I have, however, found myself working on such a loose hitch that it would require a gentle nudge for it to grab. On SRT this is a really bad idea as even a small slip can cover a lot of distance. So do keep an eye on your hitch.

My experience with what I find acceptable as a point of suspension with a base tie is the same as Nick's. I can often use branches that would never hold me with a DdRT system. Remember the two times multiplier of force is only true for parallel lines and no friction. When you open up the angles, as would happen when catching multiple crotches and then add in the friction, things change dramatically. This is the biggest change and challenge in climb planning you will face with SRT-WP. It will require looking at and assessing the tree's structure with a different eye than what you are used to. Take your time as you are learning what will and will not work but understand that this load sharing combined with the ease of setting redirects is a major component in what makes SRT-WP great for tree work.

David

I use POison HiVee 11.7mm.

I never base tie to work from unless i'm doing a quick crown lift or dead wood. I do base tie for access of course.

When setting my TIP i make sure that the work side of my rope will be long enough to reach the ground even when I'm right out on the furthest branch walk after a couple of redirects. If it's not, I can't get to the ground in an emergency, or for a cup of tea.

I think you're an accomplished climber Bermy and that can work for or against you. I've seen accomplished climbers use their knowledge and ability to adapt, I've seen others that are too stuck in their ways to adapt.
My advice is to stick with it regardless. Adapting is just a question of mental aptitude.
Good luck and enjoy.

Bermy said:

Another question, have you all found that you are upping the minimum size of your TIP now that the weight is double instead of just your regular weight?
My first go, I got my rope over a branch I normally wouldn't think twice about for Drt, but I did hesitate a bit with the SRT...comments?
Don' laugh, I know I weigh as much as a cup of spit, but it's all relative

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Ya, I'm with Nick. I don't get ridiculous on purpose, but I accidentally redirected on a finger thick cedar branch right at the collar. I was 1' over a huge crotch. I bounce tested it with only my weight and it held fine. I knew I was solid over the main crotch, and if I was on anything above this main crotch which failed, I"d have about 150' of rope stretch, and some friction of the rope sliding to absorb energy.



Remember never to blind cut if you don't know where your down strand is located. If you need to cut right next to your rope to remove a branch that the rope runs over, you can clip the downstrand to a harness strong point to pull the rope clear.

Good information again.

I think I've got enough to go on for my next climb, it's raining cats and dogs today so I'll watch all the videos!

Never underestimate the value of the information that is shared here at the House...reading all your accounts of trying the WRs and HHs and following your progressions and adaptations is what has given me the confidence and curiosity to try it myself. Of special interest was the chat when Paul sent out the prototypes and the feedback he got from you as to how to modify and improve the HH, being in on the 'R&D' even from the sidelines was great, knowing the product had been really well tested in the real world by everyday working climbers. Thanks. .

Hi Bermy.
If you get more rainy days, have a read at this thread. You might get some more tips.
Keep safe.
http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/srt-single-rope-technique/50578-hitch-hiker-thread.html