Buy online.

This is a topic I feel strongly about and thought I might see what you think about it.

If you have a good dealer near you to support I think that is the way to go.
Those who don't wish they had many times.
Buying online thru stores is comfortable and cheaper in short term, but will be bad for consumer in the long run.
One day he will need help and it is a lot more fun helping a customer you sold a saw to than a internet buyer.
Many start to refuse service to those who buy online and thru box stores, they refer them to place of purchase.
Sending stuff back and forth has been tried over the years and it is no fun.

To go to a dealer and get the help you need is priceless. It should be encouraged and supported.

If a $5 customer comes here asking for service I give it to him as he might be a $1000 in future.
Not all see it this way and focus on the big dragons.
Fine by me, they can have them, there is no interest for me in it anyway.
Providing good service will not make me a million, or the customer, but they will have help when they need it.

I order a lot of odd stuff for customers to please their curiosity or wish. Spend lots of time on service, I think it is right and the way to go.
I service all customers that come and try to help as best I can.
This I notice is more and more rare. Thoughts like "Why should I help him, he didn't buy saws here" is more and more common.

So support a good dealer if you have, they get more rare by the day!

I agree with supporting the local dealers. I've been buying from the same store for over 20 years, even staying with him when he bailed on Husky ans switched to Stihl about 10 years ago. Turned out to be a blessing, but at the time I was kind of bummed about having to change brands.

I think that in theory your idea is a good one, but it is only as good as your dealers are in the total context of service, and what is the pricing in your area. I can go buy an MS200 from my local dealer in Matsumoto, get on his good guy list, but it will cost me about $1100.00. The same with Husky, generally at least twice the price compared to the states.

It is a money maker you get.
If it is a good one and you can get service when needed I don't see a reason not to get it were you look for help when it isn't new anymore.
I am 50% more expensive than the same saw on cheapest internet place, yet I earn almost nothing at a saw sale.
The only thing I earn something on is the time rate. I get bad prices due to small volumes, so I can't add much on the stuff I sell.

I have customers that buy parts and saws online and come here for help. To me it makes no difference, but others would not do it.

The regulars I have know I get the best product I can for the money they spend.
If they call one evening and need help to get saw going I go out and they get it done so it ready for mornings work.
If not they get a loaner...

Suppose he buy online and need to wait some day's to get parts. It sits there until he get the stuff, not making money...
He loose production from it...

Oh yeah the service, I forgot to mention the gouging for the parts too, or maybe it isn't really gouging, that might be too severe of a word. 'The system of distribution' is quite complex, middlemen take a cut of the action by pushing a few papers across their desk. An old way of doing things. I don't mean to buck your theory Magnus, I see that your heart is in the right place over it, a smart perspective. I know a lot of folks that still buy at those higher prices, more often than not they don't have access to alternatives. Husky and Stihl want to protect those higher priced dealers by stopping internet sales, it is understandable, I guess. Make it a third to 50% more expensive and not twice so, I'd be feeling more conciliatory. After all, we are talking about people that make a living with their hands. The casual users have the discount places and their goods.

Look at it this way.

If there was only online purchases, would that be a good thing?
Were would you get the help needed? Online? Sure we can advice pretty well over internet with pic's and so, but there is a lot we can't do, see, hear and feel when we play the internet diagnostic's game.
A lot easyer, faster and accurate with saw infront of me. I stopped selling over internet for this reason. It is often trouble and stuff don't get right and end up costing more and spending lots more resources than it should. I can send a specific part, but fixing saws on line is a true pain in the butt.

Customers want it cheep, but this is just part of the discussion. They also want the things to last and be cost efficient.
If they buy online it isn't serviced right prior purchase, set up after custemers demands or the right product even...

There is a lot lost when buying online or at box stores.

Looking at it from another angle, what is the problem with offering good service to people that have purchased their saws elsewhere? That policy seems odd to me to begin with. Maybe I'm not picking up on something, like the dealer's overall profits, but a good mechanic should be able to bring in money to a business with repairs. It's an attitude thing? You don't buy here so the heck with your engine problem, is that how some or many operate? Buying there is an influence, it's human nature to want to give good service as a result...at least I hope so. I just think it may be narrow minded to make it an exclusivity.

It is those like me that wish customers to get the most out of the saw that really disagree on this.
Say you buy a saw online and when you get it, what do you do?
Do you have the knowledge needed to set it up? Suppose not and as it isn't performing as desired you go to a dealer to get help fix a problem that was to be corrected prior purchase. It is often lots of emotions when this happen, The poor sucker that will try to help often get the axe and brand get bad rep as a cause of it.
The dealer spend two minuts fixing the saw, another 1,5hr trying to explain why and how to prevent, + that it will not be something manufacturer will pay for.
He ends up with a angry custemer leaving with a lighter wallet for not knowing enough to set the saw up right.
This will be much more common in future!

Online purchases will not advice, teach and give pointers. It will provide a sale, that is it.

I see this everyday.
It bugs the hell out of me and I thought i would give you all here a chance to see it from the other side of the bench.

There is a lot more to it than just removing packing, fill up fluids and pull a cord.
Losts that the average user miss, even more knowledgeable too. In fact, box stores and some dealers as well....

I would never consider buying a saw online. My local dealers are important to me, I wan't to see them be sucessfull, my business helps.

Ed

Online sales is just another business model we will get used to, like everything else.

Progress.

MasterBlaster said:

Online sales is just another business model we will get used to, like everything else.

Progress.

Click to expand...

It is a step back actually...
Not progress for the consumer. It will be like old day's mail catalog business, or box store. Un-personal, not easy to get help when needed.
Not the best deal for the consumer. If service isn't what people want, it will be gone pretty fast and customer is after purchase, left hanging.

Service net is the thing that make the brand tick.
It is also after developing, the highest cost for a brand, so if this isn't needed it will not get old...

I tell my custemer to say what they want, they will get it.
They don't know...
Online they get ideas and try to figure out what is best. Not many have the experience needed to decide this.

Dealers are needed and wanted, but no one wants to pay for it. So think carefully what you do and were you place your buissness in future. It could bite you in the ass to save a dollar or two.

I will not hold it against a dealer if he choose to service the saws he sell only.
It is more and more common as they get tired of working for free.

Dealers there are plenty.
Should not be hard to find a shop that fit your needs.

It is a step back actually...

Click to expand...

That's what they think about anything that's the new "next big thing," especially when it replaces one industry with a new one.

You don't need to take a step back, like this...
It is a choice you make as consumer.

It is the buyer that decide. Not manufacturer or dealer. A lot of power to the buyer without telling what the consequences will be of his choices.
In the end consumers loose on this.

The average consumer is gradually being converted to buying "disposable" products. No service needed. Buy one on-line, use it till it breaks, buy another.

Much different from this group that buys equipment for long term use. Use it, maintain it, fix it, keep using it.

JMO

Well this is what is preferred. But it is not the most consumer friendly or cost efficient.
In today's hype about environment this is forgotten as there is less money in repair and parts than sales.
Costs of parts on the shelf and experience needed to wrench is not free either...

For a home owner it might seem attractive, up to the day he stands there with a new saw that won't run.
Regardless of brands and models, saws do get broken in one way or another.

Magnus, why do you say doing repairs is working for free? Are you referring to warrantee work? Don't dealers get compensated by the manufacturers for that?

Like I said, i see where you are coming from here, but the manufacturers are the first ones to say that a saw is a pro model or whatever the terminology they use when describing a model for the casual users. Usually not "junk". If a casual user buys a "pro model", there should be an assumption that along with that should be a degree of pro mentality about it, knowing more of the ins and outs on the subject. Buying on line without having that is a bit reckless, imo. Like buying some super screamer road racing motorcycle when your experience with bikes doesn't go beyond a Honda cub. The situation is different when a person with experience purchases on line, especially one that may know more than their local dealer about operation and maintenance.

With Stihl for example you about have to go through a dealer to get parts .With Husqvarna locally there are no stocking dealers so you kind of run out of options other than over the net

I've found out on Stihl that even if you do find parts over the net they are often priced higher than what a dealer gets for them plus you have to pay shipping .For me out of stock dealer parts are only about a 2 -3 day wait because the distributer for several eastern states is only about 120 miles away in Cincinnati .

A lot is expected to be free, all time spent discussing, showing and explaining...
Anything wrong with saw during warranty period is expected to be free.
So when the online seller come here with a saw supposedly not starting looking for warranty, the time I spend with him and saw (exception of component witch Brand cover if it is warranted) I have nothing for. This is what sale marginal cover.
Personally i don't mind, but I can understand there is those that do!

Lets say he gets a pro saw like 346. He get it home, unpack fuel it up and off he go.
He has a lot of cutting and is in a hurry as winter is getting closer.
He runs it 10 hrs a day for 2 months. He is almost done, one or two more day's left and saw won't run.
He go to dealer and ask "what is wrong?"
As dealer know him he say I will look at it for a diagnostic fee. And he notice under the saw dust and crap the clip around the carb grommet has not been changed. Check the serial and bulletin... Yup, it should never left the store.
He looks a bit more and see signs of heat and ask if it ran lean. His reply is no...
Cylinder pop of and it is badly scored and main bearing in crank is shot.
So who is to pay for this? Custemer? Dealer? Manufacturer?

I understand some know enough, but they are few in relation to the number of saws sold.
A correctly set up saw multiple its run time hrs. To know how it is to perform and sound, what to do before fill up.. There is a lot to learn on this.
What to do if it isn't?

I'm surprised the dealers have to take the shaft for a factory mishap. Any idea, Magnus, what percentage of saws have something wrong with them from the factory? Small....large?

Well these things happen from time to time, suppliers/sub contractors change and thins need to be altered after production get going 100% and result is shown.
If a dealer get this note and he change it on the saw prior sale or at service, there is refund for it.
But if this isn't done when it is supposed to the excessive cost is not covered.
Makes sense to me...
If it is serious there is recall, but mostly that isn't needed as saws are serviced before sale and sometime not long after.
Dealer gets continuous bulletins and info of what to do and parts changed.

The example I wrote above will lead to the saw being junked or used for parts as the cost of repair is more than it will be worth.
That saws damages would not be covered on Warranty or by the dealer.
If it was done properly from start it would never be any damages. None at all... No repair costs...

The amount of time spent discussing warranty and showing/educating is not something that gets paid.

Good thread Magnus, I agree with your way of thinking 100% ut unfortunely online sales and big box stores are the way of the future . there will always be a niche market like what you are offering.

I have no idea how this warranty work you have to perform gets work out between you and the manufacturer but form what little I have gathered it is a no win situation for the tech doing the work . There is no margin or profit in doing warranty work. You are only allowed so much time and money to do repairs. You have to be darn fast to even make money doing warranty work. The other side of the coin is waiting to get paid for the work and if the manufactuer will honor the work if it all.

Seems like the deck is stacked against the independent dealer. My local dealer also sells mowing equipment and the owner told me it does matter what your selling weather it's saws, tractors or generators, nor the name on the products there isn't much margin selling new equipment when you figure in your basic costs, time and money involved while it is tied up in inventory till it is sold. They the manufacturers want you to earn your money in the shop doing repairs. Selling new equipment adds to the gross income but the margins are slim to be any where near being competive in the market. This plays right into the discount store business model, why service the stuff when you can sell it cheap and fast and do it in volume to make a profit.The more they sell the more profit they can make even though it may only be 2% markup, but multiplied on a million dollars as an example it adds up to quite a chunk of change. The small independent dealer just can't compete with the big boys. By offering sevice and sales the independent dealer at least has a niche in the marketplace that can be filled.

I understand there is a interest in online sales from consumer, but it is a short term thinking that will bite them in the ass one day.
So...
When dealers quit for not putting up with all crap and BS around...

Who will fix the saws?