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Agreed, conversation is the heart of what we do here. As you well know, auto-lock does nothing to relieve the climber from the responsibility to check every effing time that her life support hardware is secured. I actually think auto-locks have not provided one bit more security to us over...

I didn't say it would be tightened in practice, Fiona :). And still, it takes 6 or 8 turns to close/open, so it's far safer against accidental opening that a non-locking or single action biner. Really, I'm not arguing with your point, just explaining why the two devices have different standards.

Fi, you are right for carabiners, but a shackle is not a carabiner, any more that a screw link is. Those both are treated differently because they take multiple turns to close, unlike the 1/4 turn a biner requires. Also, in theory, shackles and screwlinks should be tightened with a tool to...

We learn wisdom as we experience life...:). You are generous to a fault, Paul. I've never before had something go astray with normal mail service, to my memory. But I'm with you now, once burned, twice shy.

Indeed.

Paul, I've pretty much given up hope on mine ever finding it's way out of the US mail labyrinth, really sorry.

Indeed.

I hope you have better luck with the mail than I did :whine:.

8)

:lol:

It must advance better than it looks like it would. I'd think it would have a significant fall back factor before grabbing. Thanks for posting, A. I'm going to play with that.

:lol:

Agreed, my good friend.

:D I base my position in large part on the premise basic to tying any knot...that is, it is not completed until it has been tied, dressed, and SET. Setting is loading, and there is no way to really load a friction hitch without placing weight on it, as it's designed to loosen and grab...

Not only dark and isolated, don't forget damp amd muddy :D.

I have to maintain that from as close an examination as I can make, the different nomenclature of the hitches in those two photos Jack has posted seem totally arbitrary. To my eye, the left has one braid and the right has two. Y'all are of course free to dismiss my opinion :). I shall...

You add a single braid by crossing over the bottom leg of the cord to attach to the opposite side of the carabiner. As I said, I never heard the term valdotain used alone. Paul, it's my position that you are doing exactly that with your hitch. And I'll watch the mailbox with great...

I maintain that it is...not all agree, obviously.

Can anyone really maintain with a straight face that this hitch Benn has shown does not finish with a single braid? I'll go to my grave positive that it does...just as Paul's HH hitch does. Adrian, I respectfully disagree.

If it ends up with a braid, then why is it not a VT? Frankly, I never heard of a valdotain without the tresse appelation added, so what do I know. Sure looks like Paul crosses the turns with the final leg, seems like a braid to me. In which case, :P. But people have argued about what knot...