• theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    1 Week Ago
    i think this , CoG etc. are key concepts to us in even more than all we do! . Distance x Force = Work Done All Mechanical Advantage is just a redistribution of the Work Force factors to the same output product. >>there is no free ride, to magically greater >>in fact, can't even break even because at each conversion there is a tax/loss of some force transferred >>energy can't be created or destroyed... >>So persistent, we have floods of petroleum energy muck >>as all that has prevailed from previous life>>energy must be handed on; even after all else fades!! . Work Done = Distance x Force (that you can input into a system for different yields) In a given volume of work force done/input into the system >>Distance and Force are Reciprocals to the same output product of work force (1 goes up, the other reciprocates down) As if the distance was water, and the force is salt; and can only vary the water content/distance >>but this gives greater/lesser concentration of salt force in tonic, but not more salt force. If we dilute the concentration of force over a longer distance(from same input force), >>the tonic isn't as strong, but lasts longer. >>conversely;if we reduce the distance, we concentrate the power in the tonic, but can't paint it as far. . Also, i think of mechanical advantage as funneling more distance at given power into smaller distance >>giving more force density in the new smaller volume >>run force backwards thru funnel to expand distance/reduce force. . The same 5 gallons of water volume in different length aquariums will go farther wide >>or higher pressure up side of glass if covering less width >>but always same volume of water total, as length increases across bottom of aquarium, >>force reduces on sides in reciprocal trade to the same total volume of POTENTAIL. . . A 10-speed bike for most uphill power/lowest speed uses the smallest front gear, yet largest rear gear. >>just as conversely, the fastest speed is using the larger front gear and smallest rear. The pedal input force direction is concentrating force INTO smaller gear(s) on front; >>for lowest/slowest gear we choose the inner front gear to concentrate the input/funnel into smallest distance/space/gear Chain carries force to rear sprockets, but we have opposite situation options of INPUT feed larger output/tire. >>in rear the input is being DILUTED OUT to the tire(not concentrated inward like on front); we want same most greater power effect/not speed >>but force in opposite direction (outward not inward) so reverse strategy choose largest sprocket in rear to input chain force to, so dilutes power less to output arc of tire. . Conversely to go fastest, we would input to same pedal arc; just choose larger sprocket >>to maintain as much speed as possible, not concentrate force so much. >>once gain the input arc concentrates force inwards to output choices, whereby rear is diluting input to output Chain carries force to rear; we have several i put options to dilute power to larger output tire >>for fastest speed we now choose smallest sprocket, that will dilute the force concentration the most to the output arc of the tire. . Ultimately, the same input arc/pedal to same output arc/tire but gears create different distances between! >>but obviously to any rider; a great range of power vs. speed to task from their own finite input >>the pedal to gear system is a 2nd class lever, the rear system is a 3rd class lever, opposite non 1st class levers, use opposite strategy (front:small, rear:large for most power) . Gear sets are working as a rigid lever system, works on right angles >>manipulate force/distance reciprocals via smaller and larger arcs as distance multipliers Pulleys work with flexible devices rope, web, cable etc. >>so can't funnel more distance x force into smaller space by leveraged angle >>BUT, can fold flexible device into like segments to make a series of pulls at 1 time to give greater distance input; funneled into a smaller space, for more power Switch the positions of input/output in the same system and can now dilute power over more distance >>giving higher speed(distance/time) in trade for less power (reciprocal factors adjust in opposite directions to same whole product) . ALL MA increase work thru payment of more distance input, funneled into smaller distance Rigid levers multiply power by length x input to right angle (sine) Flexible levers multiply power by folded sequential segments of pulls inline (cosine) >>each in it's own way just manipulates the distance ratio of input/output >>this gives different yields of force/distance reciprocals as car transmission does . Once i could follow my funnel idea into seeming contradiction of why smallest in front and largest in rear for most 10 speed power; things got clearer!
    26 replies | 1780 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    3 Weeks Ago
    Most leverage we think of is by right angle, involves length. flexible levers/ropes do not resist on the cross axis,therefore there is no length multiplier >>leverage is by stacked sequential 1x pulls additively, not multiplying geometrically like rigid lever . Pulleys pull inline, not at right angle. >>Pulleys simply add another inline pull against the load @ given rope tension(ignoring frictions) >>can view as making lever longer in some ways, in 1 unit even increments (right angle lever can get 5.34 leverage etc.) . For simple systems : adding 1x increment legs of pull via pulley A typical line of force has the pull equal and opposite on both ends; a pulley system can simply take flexible line, and fold back the running away; equal/opposite direction force >>and fold it back/recycle force to work on the load again. Only moving pulleys allow another sequential leg of pull on load >>fixed/anchored pulleys just are redirects/re-positioning forces/directions >>note just as can multiply force on load, can do same on anchor(s), system can reverse, if anchor moves it becomes load in scenario . for compound systems that each have anchor out of the system: the output of the systems are multiplied, a 3:1 into a 5:1 =15:1 BUT each pulley has frictions, and the inefficiencies of the chain of inefficiencies would be a multiplying tax against the output. . for compound systems that 1 system has no anchor : the output the system w/o anchor pulls 2 multiplying paths into the next system kinda my 2handing example set to pulleys. . Back to simplest system imagery: BUT , this all assUme's each leg of line is pulled PURE INLINE to get the maximum potential pull of 1x per leg on load. The more angle of deflection from PURE INLINE, the less the return on the pull, between 0-1 range multiplier is used to calculate. >>This 0-1 range multiplier for potential (the total pull) gives the amount of pull actually working on load (ignoring frictions) We call this 0-1 range multiplier :COSINE(cos). . Cosine of 30 is .8666 so if pulling 100# tension, only realize 86.66 on pulley >>and 50# pulling across cuz SINE(sin) is. 5. ( i think riggers and climbers should be familiar with benchmark sine/cosines of 0,15,30,45,90) So can say, each leg of load pull adds it's cosine x rope tension as a pull against load . >>we assUme each leg is 0degrees deflection and that that cosine is the 1.0 we assUme note:on spread to 2 points, only look at half the spread as the angle of deflection for each pull/support . Once grasp that, same math for hanging picture with 2 spread anchors on picture and 1 nail in wall >>the tension on wire is raised so has enough inline force /cosine to pull up on picture >>incurring the sine as tax for business at that angle >>this tax can sidewards pull anchors off picture from sine forces produced. . my mnemonic: so politically speaking: Don't let your SIN corrupt your COS(cause)! . time to clock in!
    26 replies | 1780 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    3 Weeks Ago
    Very nice and needed, thanx! Really like your concept; as something i tired to achieve. >>this is something i've turned many cartoons in head over and over on. From a concentration that i had drawn in 90's to these internal images/and poems.... . There is no free ride; we are just redistributing the 2 force reciprocals in the mini ecosystem: power and distance to the same sum(total foot pounds of force) . i think of it as running so much force x distance forwards or backwards thru a funnel >>to concentrate(or dilute) the same power into a different distance. >>For these models we ignore the tax of frictions at each conversion; >>there is such a tax, no conversion is 100% (or Kennedy bullit would still be flying) >>i mentally illustrate frictions tax as simply co$t of doing business with funnel/ what gets stuck to the sides . Another model: i try to show volume of force as water in long aquarium; 1/5 full >>with movable glass halfway that keeps the water on 1 side >>as long as we input the same amount of water to start >> we have the same total force potential >> we can move glass piece to concentrate water into smaller space and it rises/higher pressure onside >> we can also move glass piece farther out to allow water cover more distance >>>>at lower height/puts less pressure on glass sides! >>another way to show in same model: water weight on bottom glass totally same, but different per square inch per movable glass everything must be accounted for! edit: Dad taught, as many; to eat all food/ don't waste some poor kid some place would really appreciate and it costs money! >>i guess i taught same but with more weight: Physics says only so much energy >>Something died or gave up it's young so you could eat; should be respectful enough to only take what you need; and not waste the sacrifice made! (besides i'm a cheap SOB myself, so don't waste my money boy;and yeah there are people that are starving, should be grateful; is not any less!) . If We pull 20ft@100# pull we create 2000ft#'s we will always have this product output(or storage) from the reciprocals (minus tax) We can take the 20ft@100# input into rigid or flexible 1st/2nd/3rd class lever systems, >>and redistribute the reciprocals to concentrate or dilute power thru funnel to: 10ft@200#'s = 4ft@500#'s = 2ft@1000#'s = 50ft@40#'s = 2000ft#'s (each) . Another assumption we make that Gerry points out is Zer0 deflection. >>if each leg of rope is not 100% PURE inline it's cosine multiplier is less than 1 and the pulls are thus less >>the volume of force in rope is not all pulling on pulley, some of it is pulling across on it's sine >>cosine (inline) and sine(offset) are just 0-1 range multipliers of the potential force total on that leg >>cosine of deflection just gives percentage of total force on that leg that is pulling on pulley to that target. Even if in the .pdf tree pulls if say ropes in 2:1/3:1/5:1 rigs are PURE inline, if pulling @ 45degrees on target tree >>getting only 70% of 2:1/3:1/5:1 rig as pulling across leveraged angle at the leveraged height on target tree. >>those old Greek's were right, this is mostly geometry% of the potential input of distance X power i think knot 'strengths' are defined by cosine, harder to get better than 70% knot 'strength'/efficiency >>cuz 70% is kinda cosine of 45 degrees deflection, and cosine doesn't significantly change at this end of the bar >>if we groom knot to only 30 degrees deflection/non-inline parts of rope we are only at 86% cos. (i think of a rig as just an expanded view of forces inside of a knot;each are machines made with same materials,forces/subject to same rules!) . But, each strategy that stands against Ye, a good gamer should be able to invert and capitalize on, to advantage >>old worlde sweat/swig of line to grab more 'purchase' from load to control side does this, then 'hold fast' thru frictions >>leveraged rope sine force that is usually working against you to weaken knots, pull sideways on tow hook >>now gives leveraged effort against load w/o pulley frictions!! . Counting the pulls on a compound pulley system must be done in layers, chase force thru multiple directions >> focusing on the dynamic/ moving(power) rather than static(directional redirect only) pulleys (Beranek) >>the compound system take a leg that usually would anchor/ground out , outside rig and fold that force back into rig for another pull! >>this is accounting for force gets harder; essentially gives another force input point to chase power production/loss thru system >>my 2 handing model essentially does that with your own body! >>Then, used as compound pulley system w/2handing as another compounding input (another link) >>i model this as using full 220v from fuse box, rather than just 1 leg of force 110v >>i had used this for years in different ways, thought all were separate miracles. >>but finally defined all as part of same model from our DdRT; were you pull yourself own self up with 2:1 >>>>both legs of line shorten 1ft. for you to rise 1ft. >>can sift form from martial arts movies etc. too, our boy has been in and out of Akido for 15+ yrs.; he's an engineer now at citrus plant For those that can deal with Flash dep(h)recating in 2020 mytreelessons.com/Flash/pulley21xRig.swf . CoG of tree distance/angle from compressed part of hinge pivot is the load leverage >>stretched fibers in hinge distance/angle from pivot is the support leverage >>these/everything are in balance OR moves until balance is achieved; >>the motion itself making up the imbalance. So the tree falls, until is satiated/exhausted by meating it's Equal and Opposite >>same as electricity, people etc.! . Points might seem scattered,but to me are all pivotally the same! 'Exactly the same; but different' my buddy used to say. If you can stretch to see that; every time you see one in action, you L-earn/confirm about all.. Another exercise/stretch is to be able to trace all powers backwards thru systems, >>also trace not only the compounding of forces, but also compounding of inefficiencies >>as much for understanding as for checksum of what you think you see! . Merry Christmas!
    26 replies | 1780 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    4 Weeks Ago
    Graeme has been untouchable for ~3 decades of watching his antics. . Best part for me is vid_1~9.30 talking about having to be ready to run in new or olds cool depending on work, tools and crew. For us that meant over practicing each new toy (i was first kid on block around here with porty etc.) until know how to quickly deploy and when. >>preached the gunfighter had to know which tool to draw, and to do so smoothly to not get killed. . Of course there is the real olds cool stiff lanyard adjuster knot in vid_2! . i think Natural crotch (i can say that?) carries load better more than sling /pulley. i also always liked joining sweat/swig w/ olds cool, Natural frictions.
    16 replies | 580 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    12-15-2017
    Do we consider the temperature zone to hinge flexibility; or is that seen as a nominal change/factor?
    27 replies | 699 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    12-07-2017
    i think in terms of the front /back leveraged extremes of the narrow part of hinge ushering the tree shape to target; BUT, then Left/Right leveraged extremes on long part of hinge steering the CoG to same target. >>CoG forcepoint can over-rule narrow part of hinge steering shape >>Whole secret is to remove what isn't needed, while preserving /not cutting the most needed leveraged positions . Center Punch takes out fibers that can't steer; allowing re-apportioning of same fibers (so has the same fold forward resistance) >>to the left/right steering extremes for increased steering control. >>Similar to Tapered Hinge re-apportion fibers to have same fold forward resistance; but more sideLean resistance. . i remember having to paint cuts with that messy tar crap; that got all over like pine sap does. It was what the new guys did to prove climbing and positioning before being allowed to carry more than hand saw; >>by following climber on some stuff and painting their cuts as a break from dragging logs. The positioning can be more extreme to paint rather than cut it seemed; Far cuts were made with paint brush in the metal loop forged on end of polesaw under blade, held by spring clip >>sometimes had to remove blade,slide in handsaw holster so wouldn't interfere with painting.
    6267 replies | 481746 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    12-01-2017
    CoG examples are all around, because it rules>>example:1 of those hand spinners: >>low friction bearing pivot >>very light body/arms >> but stiff/inflexible for conservation of energy/no loss of force Weight purposefully at end of stiff arm, purposefully miss-apportioned to put CoG way on outside of arc>>spin >>CoG on outer part of arc is force cranking thru inflexible arm to low friction bearing to try to keep going longest If weight balance /CoG was further towards center on arm/ but still total weight >> CoG wouldn't have as much leverage over bearings, and not persist as long >>would be carrying same load with same input power from inertia of CoG but less leverage to fight bearing frictions (edit: a metal, heavier better made spinner will exemplify principals better, can feel difference) Same shape, weight, different CoG position defines the whole movement/work around pivot >>spar or tree in imagery is like weightless/ super strong shell (theoretical unubtanium element, but now i guess we can say graphene matrix!) with huge lead disk in it >>position of disk in spar or tree, defines forcepoint for all how to make it move/or stop it considerations around hinge pivot, >>where stretched and compressed fibers are, and thus tapered/dutchman regions etc. in hinge will be changed if move disk(that forms CoG in tree) . The load CoG is the INITIATING force; it then DEFINES the compressed part of the hinge position(as pivot) and loading in RESPONSE >>this then in chain DEFINES where and to what loading the leveraged tension fibers are set in RESPONSE to CoG>>pivot forces change CoG changes EVERYTHING; it is the INITIATING force; everything else is in RESPONSE or simply set AGAINST CoG
    97 replies | 2710 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    12-01-2017
    All good! . Some old pix for Robert's stash(more from my present vectorized drawing era!): . Siting by stick trick or 45 degree geometry of roofers square or rake trick . gun sighting direction notes i always list with fall length . Theory of why i say see bypass horizontal across fiber grain as more of a Dutchy stop/pop/crumble; Than much different slanted cut bypass, that puts stop across flexible axis of fiber instead This is more to the accidental kerf full face type Dutchy; that offers no path of relief(kerf across grain on bottom cut) But also hopefully some general Dutchy mechanix concept: . White fibers as not stretched or compressed has been questioned before; But i still draw like this imagining if sliding thru a gradual gradient from compressed to tension fibers >>cuz i thinx must be a neutral zone between the extremes (can't slide across from -1 to 1 w/o 0)! >>see same in bent rope fiber i think ; going from compressed fibers to tensioned fibers gradually would then define neutral zone in between extremes
    22 replies | 634 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-30-2017
    Not quite my earliest drawings, but still some pretty ruff, from 90's mostly: mytreelessons.com/Drawings Archive-Dutchmans.htm . After Y2K playing with Flash(would have to enable in browser): mytreelessons.com/Dutch Push in 1 side of Face.htm . i think of kerf dutchman as earliest close in that side of face >>across full face gives a snap/pop/or crumble as the raging forward force is offered no path of relief >>Dutch 1side, offers other side to raging forward forces an easiest path of least resistance calling to forces seeking said relief . In my imagery: i see a generic strip hinge on side lean as don't care what the forces this is what you get all the same on each side >>even though the loading is different! >>BUT even though the hinge is strip, the loading pattern form forces is more of a tapered hinge within the strip >>>>the pivot compression position taken first, rest left to tension in tapered position, saw just cut out part of it where most needed! >>>>to fold forward same tree, same folding resistance forward must be re-apportioned to allow support cross-axis/sidelean pulls more fully Just as a tapered hinge is more of a custom fit to sidelean, modified to task of sideloading , not generic >>Then too, a step/tiered Dutchman offers similar custom fit set to oppose sidelean, instead of generic all the way across, no matter what the loading . i think the front back extremes across narrow breadth of hinge are gradually reduced until inline forces/shape folds forward >>but extremes across long breadth/axis of hinge handle the steering of the CoG into same box(hopefully) >>these extremes are where tapered and dutchman sit . Essentially on sidelean the fat part of hinge, dutchman and CoG would try to line up across hinge diagonally >>Note: Left sidelean will close harder on left side face,and pull harder on right rear anyway, without tapered or dutchman >>we just seek to maximize these force effects by simply not cutting them out (more of a step than kerf imagery there) >>by rather reducing their ante/antagonistic sides to these positions there, and allow more impact of change to tapered and dutchman effects . i find another reason to steer against sidelean when don't have to (besides practice/practice/practice) >>is i think folding directly into lean force is hardest hit, to side is same force over longer path>>not into direct gravity pull as less >>also,using tree force fighting self to make this turn , force is i finite,just used more >>then wouldn't hit direct into ground, but slightly across, so not fullest concussion of hit i think this transfers well to same in bucking(had to delete the F) top bind direct 12 noon top of bind is severest force, try to carry to 1:30 angle fold for less force >>by tapered hinge low pulling to 1:30facing with topside kerf dutchman to push to 1:30 as tapered pulls all in unison,not binding against each other . Use the force line/lean/top bind as power; >>give correct mechanical command push/pulls to use power to carry to target
    22 replies | 634 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-29-2017
    Seen this , never indulged. . Some terms get blurred and regional, especially on Dutchman i think. . i think of Dutchman as simply an early close in face by kerf full face or just to push side (to offset lean or try clear obstacle) or tiered faces of block raise on push side or cut step down to leave high on push side. >>i wasn't much for blocking up . i'm most confused by Swing Dutchman meaning heard many times/sounds very fancy; i think of it as a strong tapered hinge against sidelean, perhaps center punched; very little hinge on push side that forces tear-off by Dutchman on that side early; allowing hard pull to opposite side to over rule/swing as that face is still closing . Most lessons in Dutchman felling just resound to me repeatedly why to PERFECTLY machine faces in everything. >>Biggest lesson in normal felling would be why NOT to accidentally invoke any of these aspects >>accidental full face kerf Dutchman bottom cut bypassing slanted accepted as most seen Dutchman, and most deadly >>bottom cut bypassing slanted puts close force directly up inflexible 'roman column' of stacked fiber strength of spar >>slanted cut bypass as close across flexible axis of fibers/ seeing as totally different . Mostly i'd use Dutchman in climbing(turning Dent model sideways to down as sidelean , across as target for horiz) and bucking, i do consider a kerf undercut on stob, and down cut /snapcut some say to drop stob straight down as Dutchman >>inner cut is hinge, face closes pushes back up as support like extra hand holding stob, then you complete backcut>>support gives least fiber stretch >>similar hop small top over fence, early kerf close full face, slam hard shut, no place to go get top to hop >> not so big as to over rule constitution of wood with warring internal forces and come apart/ barberchair as in felling proportions . Even with handsaw, pulling over limbs in tree by hand , can tier faces and see/feel effects; >>even push some back up to start and take more from face and see how it feels etc. (while waiting for ground control to catch-up etc.)
    22 replies | 634 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-29-2017
    Follow your gut; i think anyone here can say you can get in the worst trouble when you don't! >>cultivate/don't ignore your gut were it will be spurned and won't talk anymore or as loud! . Visualize a plan over and over from different angles, like turning a fancy chess board around on pivot in a movie,as you plot scenarios of different plans etc. >>take your time planning; cuz this is more like a 3 layer chess board on Star Trek and Spock is trying to play with your mind; don't let him rush you to err and laugh at you! . hard to see leans towards house to evaluate >> if power lines private pole to house, not so much shared commons pole to pole, would expect power company to drop for few hours when ok with customer >>if high power community line would ask for safety trim from power company >>be ready to move communication lines yourself, if phone boxes in area take 3/8" nut driver, carry nut driver . Throwline is virtually cheapest investment on truck, save tons of work and safer to throwline in than climb, or allow it to help you climb. How much would you pay yourself to climb all 3 and put lines in? >>is a throwline cheaper/faster/safer? and that you'd have taking forward making jobs easier? . Para-cord and a mechanix rag of dirt can even work;you want a soft/deforming weight that won't bounce out; >> but rather just smash to 'puddle' and slide down into target,rather than bouncing out like hunk of metal , wood, rubber would etc. . Use rake trick or roofers square etc. to 45degree out the falls, make sure no obstacles. >>at 45 degree angle, site base and top correctly, and your standing in fall line, pretty much at tip, rake trick/plumber's square etc. just help make the geometric 45 >>brushing head/stem besides something in felling can be a HIGH leverage(if stiff) push sideways against hinge pivot. >>same as:make sure no branches tangled or will be tangled with other trees thru fall . Pull with rope/push with wedge to face/not against sidelean; use added forces to challenge/make hinge stronger by earlier fold >>wedge push naturally stops on lift after stronger hinge is forced; so then doesn't stress against stronger hinge/ wedge action stops >>rope pull should be similar, pull to force stronger hinge, then let hinge guide without rope still trying to pull tree faster etc. >>backlean exception,must pull tree over 'hill'/top of arc to stage to fall side positioning >>rope pulls take another man >>might be able to rotate fall angle so backlean becomes sidelean you can handle >> can also rig some backlean out . Pull with truck,heavy truck, with good tires, on good, solid,dry,flat ground , plenty of gas, pre-plan load of wood in back of truck have to carry anyway for more traction. >>longer line best, want flatter rope angle, as pulling forward, rope will pull UP on truck losing some traction the further you go >>can redirect to low pulley, so pulley captures upward pull and truck only gets straight line pull/ fights load with full traction whole time. >>learn to drag 800# at time with truck on clean-up >>learn to make tight about 6'x 6' stomped down all same direction, same curl brush stacks that has good strong branch at bottom of sled, drag with truck, don't lift anything to then unload that you can drag! >>meter overwhelming leverage and pull of truck to tree lightly to (unless backlean) just FORCE stronger hinge that can handle side to side part of load (tapered against sidelean etc.) rope pull is best with wedge backup as safety and help some to stronger hinge gives stronger steering,and softer hit . All this is dependent on good rooting, and good wood >>INSPECT >>listen to customer,why are they removing trees?>>listen hard for any faults to wood etc.
    62 replies | 1530 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-28-2017
    i'd like to echo the last 4 posts immensly >>you have more materials than i had my first 5yrs! . Primary Hitch point is B.if that was CoG, would hang balanced /horizontal>> for now primary hitchpoint is pivot instead of spike >>part of your unique rigging force is have line out far enough for support to CoG, and fortifying angle thereof fortifying back into hinge >>if CoG was more towards C, rig load would have inverted, >>rig woulda been right direction then, but risky/explosive move, would be more of a crane lift setup >>i figured from day1 you woulda kinda mentioned that if inverted to butt down, rather than soft hinging of tip down So figured CoG more in the B - E range . Originally Posted by theTreeSpyder "....Rest of log architecture is just handle points to talk to the CoG thru...." . Marc-Antoine, thanks for pointing this out.... now I need to understand it. >>Visualization model ; FEEL this in grocery cart with wide spread hands >>you should be able to FEEL how different beer case/ CoG positioning is all that is different in different handlings >>focus and can feel how all effort is against CoG (if no bad wheels etc.) >>feel/sift out that you are handling both the shape of cart, and the forcepoint of CoG as separate items >>only way to talk to CoG is thru architecture as handles to control CoG and ASK it to change position/orientation But that is an ASK, CoG will win in a fight, and carry or shear shape , the force rules, see container/shape as weightless, only CoG gives it weight >>So work to visualize CoG position correctly, and then consider how all forces on (stiff) shape affect CoG;the force point is everything,just carries shape around it as handles to CoG! . i can't tell you how much gymnastics and feeling forces thru my own architecture, and how to control their flows for different effects has aided me in visualizing same in loads/targets!! i think mystical martial artists L-earning life's secrets thru movement is simply, the best way to L-earn anything is to not watch, read or even do but rather be part of the works! There is this verbal vs. book vs. video vs. doing vs. Body Knowledge/the knowing innately,cuz look at something and Pavlovian conditioned to feel pulls on own body! Just as philosophy of balance easier to see in all things (in mystical martial arts sense) after fight and see/feel in own self as ultimate knowledge! Anytime hanging, swinging, pivoting on rope, visualize/empathize that rigged load on same rope 'feels' same forces you do; then will be 'common' sense toyou!
    97 replies | 2710 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-26-2017
    i think luckily the texture/rot/deformations of bark Half Hitch is bedded in; stopped the slide back of Half Hitch; or perhaps HH slipped to here and stopped. . Also, as the Half Hitch feeds to Running Bowline; what would be the Standing Part pull to Running Bowline; the angle of rope pull within the Bowline choke >>angle pulls to open sea; not firmly against lock of Bowline!! >>beckons Bowline to shift, slide and or open NOT lock! BOTH grabs on load (HH and Bowline)are set to fail/open; slow tip into the bark texture frictions probably saved day >>just as the random forces assembled for your target luckily; can assemble against and be VERY disastrous. This work can destroy property, and make a grease spot out of you in an instant(or make you wish it had quick and clean)! . You didn't have positive, mechanical control of load and luckily the quarter landed on it's edge >> cuz you were fixing to get more like heads:smash building, tails :crush head opportunity righteously We're saying don't depend on quarter to land on edge anymore,simply not a strong hand to draw to. >>besides, you already got your free pass that day; generally only 1 such joker in a deck! . As said ABoK was written 80 yrs. ago for 3's of natural fiber lines with MUCH greater frictions and less elasticity, the slippery synthetics were just appearing >>not all info translates out but pages in book look amazingly like this LINK (thanx educated climber) should be fine as good background, lots of arts and crafts can be skipped. Look to L-earn knot lessons, as mechanical functions, that make it easier to understand and remember how to tie and set knot; don't just run thru trying to see how many knots can memorize JUST to tie. Tie Running Bowline around thigh while watching tv, FEEL the different angles of pull; know what tightens/loosens innately, proceed w/HH pull on thigh FEEL how a log is captured or lost!! over and over and over.. >>DO THIS WITH HOW YOU RIGGED >> FEEL / KNOW INNATELY why this is wrong! . With Half Hitch on butt end (D) to Bowline where HH is(B); would have been good for ending log hang; But i believe, present HH position was needed for way he rigged as support/float hard to tell from pic alternatives >>could HH @B and Running Bowline to E or F; but i like that before CoG forcepoint of log >>might HH between B/C and Running Bowline to be dogged by smaller branch low between B & E for still good support leverage by line, some pull back support added firming into hinge; 2 choke grabs inline on load before CoG formulae. . Mo: On rope gives very good rope science,but not a tree book. You see anything on knots thru internet Dan Lehman says; read it 2x! . fm 5-125 will probably never use stuff from it, but then again you will always be using stuff from it as raw principles (like ABoK) >>don't need to pass a test on this, comes daily, but should be able to make farmer's sense out of why these things work etc. >>and absorb the repetitive patterns as mechanical works, not 1 offs . Ropes and Friction Hitches used in Tree Climbing Operations - Paolo Bavaresco . Knot Knowledge . Industrial rope access - Investigation into items of personal protective equipment . Life on a Line . Mark Adams articles . Evaluation of current rigging and dismantling practices used in arboriculture . PACI knots used in fall protection -Mark Gommers >>Mark Gommers and Dan Lehman probably 2 best knot minds around on anything either is quoted on or written >>password on Mark's .pdf's is 'thankyou' . felling presentation pdf . chainsaw tech pdf . And mebbe if set up to watch Flash in browser: mytreelessons.com/rl/content/Hinging-Full.swf before deprecates/defecates in 2020.. . Too much,same over and over, seems like living, breathing,eating this at every turn? You aren't being invited to a job but a lifestyle! >>ain't got the taste fer it, better to find out now! >>orchestrating all these things together at once, under intense physical strain, quick decisions on correctly aligned senses and understandings is what this life is; >>you don't play it like that; ya get cut from team in some sense or another, Darwin will thin you from the herd! . i imagine this is a pro, that might have done all that, and still was almost his last day; only focused emergency pre-planning and persistence got this man outta Dodge.. Note how he immediately sights trouble and reacts , i think also FELT tree coming apart thru saw as stethoscope, F... the saw and begone to fight another day brutha! <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9O7H9qWdquk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> you can really see the stats of tree work being most fatally dangerous activity, 90% of deaths in 1st 5' in 1st 15seconds of felling really resounds.. . Never forget the gift given; in being able to be allowed to float, fly yourself and command the largest beings on this Earth, that some would give anything for 1 minute of! <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fC_j_1OvQjc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> (Rope Rescue of a different sort muzak:"It's not Easy to be Me" from Superman.. i can't stand to fly..trying to find better part of me) . There are literally decades of experience and passion in your thread now for you!
    97 replies | 2710 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-25-2017
    Awe geeez, don't need to be so jr; jr. . ABoK was written in 40's WW2 era; great book of real grit; knots are quoted by number world wide, i see each as not a knot but a lesson. The massive book in hand, talking about massive loads at sea; seems appropriate; but content wise the pages themselves, and look amazingly like this LINK . Either Half-Hitch or Marl will do. >>Slip Half Hitch off end when done and loop falls out of rope >>Slip Marl off end when done and have over hand knot in rope reverse either to install either >>Marl harder to set, but then maintains the purchase of effort more . i figured/hoped that is what ya done; that would be the dance moves to focus on would make face very inviting for log to fall into; not really gonna force anything so much as just allow it . But remember doing big things don't make ye superman; imagine self more like little man in center of 1000 elephant herd with small stick gracefully urging herd home >> and trusting you are doing it right and that they are not having a bad day! . Center of Gravity is where that whole roped log would theoretically balance perfectly horizontally on a spike. >>it is the sum total of all the short and long leverages and angles of the whole load mass >>visualize gravity pulling at that specific point with a cable; the distance /angle from that point to the hinge pivot is the leverage of the load/movement >>1 model is to command the Center of Gravity and the shape of the log or tree etc. follows >>if a crane lifts a horizontal load upwards on hinge,and the pull is farther from the hinge than CoG, crane has leverage over CoG, >>if not, probably still work if close,but load inverts on tear-off>>CoG rules >>if log is falling, it is falling from CoG, and log shape follows.. Rest of log architecture is just handle points to talk to the CoG thru >>BUT, the CoG does not itself have to at a physical point on architecture! >> center of metal donut, is center of metal donut! >>but can change position by leveraging against CoG from outer parts of donut, that then CoG moves and carries rest of shape with it . If put case of beer in empty grocery cart >>handles differently on turns etc. if case high, low,forward or back, from narrow or wide grips on handle bar sharpest left is to pullback on left with bodyweight in arc as pushing arc with right from widest grip hands Case pretty determinate of CoG in light structure of cart, all changes in handling are from CoG and grip adjustments >>keep wide grip,all handling changes/lessons from CoG/ case adjustment . Mite sound like BS, but CoG very real, is whole answer to many things, can be elusive, like digesting metal donut
    97 replies | 2710 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-25-2017
    YES; have seen several (z)Heroes remove all of left wing, center mast, then try to collect and leave rest/right wing for someone else like it is easy, they did biggest part!! Thanx for not being that guy! i'd assume most on this forum have seen same. (z)Heroes have even tried to shove me aside when not wearing spurs and setting lines >> funny when they put spurs on backwards/spikes out and lost when can't climb! >>not funny to see 60' of lifeline slack on a 40' climb... Darwin's theory will be hunting them to clear from gene pool;this game is for keeps! . Backwards pulls i see in rig: Half Hitch and Bowline: #C second/final ring/grab does pull at leveraged angle just the same; but EXTREMELY buffered >>more precise to say is not leveraged per load pull; as is very minimal in comparison . Half Hitch as pull angle modifier applied to Timber Hitch to make Killick pull examples: (plus importance of similar topic Top Nip as stop; as best Nip place is same top Nip/ Equal & Opposite direction from loading pull of Standing Part) . Hinge-wise would look at any load where it wants to go as force/power axis; use that power to go to path you want to go as target axis. >>facing direction on target direction gives path of least resistance to desired path >>narrow axis of hinge: extremes/leveraged differences apart usher the shape of load/limb/tree to target path; (while) >>long axis of hinge : extremes/leveraged differences apart usher the Center of Gravity forcepoint to target path You want to purpose fully do both for most positive mechanix . When force axis is not same as target axis: >>rear smallest area between hinge and power axis pulls Center of Gravity hardest to target path/maximize with tapered hinge; (just as on close) >>front smallest area between hinge and power axis pushes Center of Gravity hardest to target path/maximize with Dutch step(only on fall side in backlean). Also>>When force axis is not same as target axis: >>not folding willingly into pure power axis/ dissipating same force over longer distance >>must also use some of finite tree force to do so Gives >> softer fold in felling and bucking,even top bind(fold up to 1:30 not 12noon). Applied to your scenario, would setup hinge strategy; relax support line some like relieving small puff of steam from kettle/keeping most >>invite load to find it's way home; perhaps line over farthest end forcing slightly stronger hinge just a second.. . Saying 'axis' rather than 'direction' (1 way on said axis) allows model to encompass backlean scenarios Should always and all ways watch this axis anyways/ looking both ways on this high loaded street; >>because that Equal & Opposite direction is where rope recoil and barber chairs etc. kickback to! In climbing and folding horizontal: same hinge used to fold down or crane lift up on same axis/either direction.
    97 replies | 2710 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-24-2017
    No,actually the whole left side of tree ballasts against pulls towards house; and maintains more of original sprung position/so 'tighter', both stabilizing tree thru rigging pulls phase, and offers more clearance (if left side weight was relieved, could expect house side to sit down farther /not up in trade!) Have come behind too many guys that cut that off and even center mast you are using, then try to figure out harder part, after making it more impossible.. . Always have a rigging plan; >>always play/run that maze in head backwards as checksum, and to see around corners and not paint yourself into one! >>always have an escape plan; play/run that maze backwierds....
    97 replies | 2710 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-24-2017
    . To my eye: A>is a helpful angle; pulling load back into hinge as part of support; but on a bad day; if not enough line tension relief can fold back and hit climber B>pull angle looks backwards to me and leveraged against line (will draw out below) C>to me should run opposite direction towards E, force should come from A, pass thru B to straight line to E/F D>looks like Running Bowline , That C is pulling to open part of eye, could pull Bowline open/unlock choke position,i'd rotate around so that C pull locks against eye rope, not to open area E>this is where i'd want the Center of Gravity for the log, outside both hitch points to log, pulling hitch points close. See center of gravity as force point that powers rig F>i'd consider locking running Bowline here, after a preceding Half Hitch back towards cut >>Generally would have (moving down branch from saw) cut/leveraged length/Half Hitch/Running Bowline etc. as final hitch/Center of gravity/rest of log. . Angles of concern: To me B & D are both points that could slip some/even pull open; and angle A could kill if not watched and danced with properly! . Severe angle of rope/tension as control, can overwhelm if increased. >>if top is 12 noon, and towards reader is 3pm, would face towards reader, slightly downward to about 4:30pm >>with hinge tapered to pull towards reader; offer tension relief to line; try to get the marble/log to seek out and happily go to hole/path of least resistance offered/face >>As gravity pulled down i'd probably have far side of face close(but not seize motion) in Dutchman, offer only towards reader path of least resistance >>might have rope on very tip end of log to initially force stronger hinge by forcing earlier first folding of hinge and back saw off, force meatier hinge , Most new guys i ever seen, cut off the offside/easy cuts that could give ballast to loading of rig side, and also sometimes been rig or life line supports >>making job immediately 10x harder and more dangerous for next guy >>congrats for not just cutting possible critical helpers just to look like getting job done! . Always, and all ways; look at the Center of Gravity(CoG) of a non bending load; to be like a point that gravity is cabled to and pulling exclusively from downward. We want to take control of the shape, and CoG forcepoint both, can settle for CoG only and shape will follow easier than CoG following shape!(edit:guess that needs more explanation/later) Visually measure scenario from this CoG point to the most loaded pivot point, then to all pushes pulls from that pivot point. Trace force path like an electrical diagram of force flow; only with geometric consequence /distance angles matter unlike in electrical wiring. >>This makes distance between primary load hitch (HH) and hinge a leveraged arm (after tearoff becomes ballast) When rope rig helping thru hinging/before tear-off; hinge is pivot, until rope takes most of load off hinge, and primary rope hitch becomes pivot/ sudden pivotal change in mechanics; giving different effects/mechanical reverses to play with! . Please review work, disposals, proposed technical surgical prowess proposed vs. price; jest sayin.. in progress...
    97 replies | 2710 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-23-2017
    i'd say depending on it's disposition, this could have pulled open etc.? Lots of back pressure into hinge as a ball/socket with this rope angle; instead of situation of not enough pre-tighten; this can self pre-tighten too much, whereby relief of tension /steam is necessary or can came back at climber hard; this almost killed me when distracted groundie didn't relieve tension as i screamed to.. . Generally would have (moving down branch from saw) cut/leveraged length/Half Hitch/Running Bowline etc. as final hitch/Center of gravity/rest of log. . i assume the center of gravity is outside the roped region . The pressure on twists ; seems to have kept lacing on branch. Generally want preceding Half Hitch to pull close, then further DOWN branch have final anchoring knot. >>hitch alone gives single grab; resistance to Standing Part pull is more angle leveraged against line >>Preceding with Half Hitch puts gives double grab and Standing Part resistor INLINE to the pull, then feeds to final anchoring knot. single knot generally wants to pull across 90degrees to spar, special thing to pull inline down the column length/long axis on load >>or rope as our climbing hitches do . so after cut and when branch hanging VERTICAL (unless balanced/ballast against self ): ABoK chapter_22:Lengthwise Pull (pre-ramble/opening statement): "To withstand a lengthwise pull without slipping is about the most that can be asked of a hitch. Great care must be exercised in tying the following series of knots, and the impossible must not he expected..." >>rig worked,but not as positive mechanic of rope lock on branch for my tastes. . On the anchoring /final knot (against force flow thru line) seems a Running Bowline: i'd prefer this mechanic too , to pull close , not open, and really to be topside/not around side >>if anything pulling fromother side some to once again lock at end of eye/not pulling into open area of eye? >>and to be further downstream , with a Half Hitch preceding it/not back towards saw. . Length between cut and 1st hitch to branch can be a support lever; plenty given here. >>rig would not have worked near as well/if at all; if knots reversed in position ; >>would have same first grab point,maybe less length but run final knot towards other end of log/not towards cut, perhaps dogging final Bowline/Clove at branching; but i like to keep Center of Gravity outside of this range too. Not Sure no how cut is faced; but i think i'd offer downwards towards reader as path of least resistance to roll forward into; >>especially with the leveraged rope tension giving a lot of float; looking at rope angle of pullback towards sawyer as a spice, sprinkled in very lightly; too much and can take sawyer out pretty hard. . i really,really do like how you rigged this first after clearing the way YET saving any potential critical offside rigging positions ~AND~ the offside ballast rather than throwing them away just to look like doing something!
    97 replies | 2710 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-18-2017
    That was sometime ago; i was mortified when first saw pix gone. . i'd say that thread has been cleaned/sanitized, some of the posting id names are even different! >>spawned many threads >>i'm not sure what pic went with what or even if i have all after the gauntlet of years and HD crashes. >>even good friend wayback machine can't find! . i believe most to start are here: myTreeLessons.com/Drawings Archive-Hinge.htm . extended into going Dutch: myTreeLessons.com/Drawings Archive-Dutchmans.htm . eventually leaving msPaint behind for playing with Flash (that is being defecated, and will fully defecate in 2020 as i'm still trying to learn..) : myTreeLessons.com/Dutch Push in 1 side of Face.htm . In using Dutchman, during face close; system Naturally often goes to tapered type hinge somewhat by the way it incites tear-off across hinge from close side first. . Mostly use Dutch in the lower loaded ranges of bucking and climbing, rather than felling. >>felling so highly loaded and leverage; most Dutch lessons come back around to why to perfectly machine faces and make no Dutchman. >>Have found use for Dutch felling in making head bounce off side obstacle rather than jam by getting face close just previous so push in face and at head/stem co-ordinate >>after all Dutch and tree in foreground are both force path obstacles in generic terms ; Dutch is just within the face itself. >>especially from backleaner super flexxing thinner hinge in stage1 and then stage2 falling into stepped/tiered face to help steer clear or at least only give glancing blow to obstacle/other tree;then inciting tearoff across hinge ; so is simply not (fully) resisting obstacle's VERY high leveraged (distance from obstacle push to hinge as pivot, especially if encompasses tree center of gravity) push to side. . Tear-offs on 1 side can even give almost spin, so normally try to maintain at least minimal small patch on compression side if center punch face; If using Dutch step that can make that side tear-off totally make sure is fully committed or can have unexpected results. . i think 1 reason not to fell to lean, is to not fell into most direct gravity pull(softer hit on lawn, at more glancing angle force), and use some tree force to change direction. >>for me this translates into bucking top bind to fold more towards 1:30 than 12 noon, theorizing fiercest pinch at 12noon so less compression at 1:30 AND dissipate some treeforce to make this change to take this longer route! >>face to target axis 1:30, Dutch to compression side of force axis 12noon where it wants to go and you are pushing away from as tapered hinge pulls in tandem to face; same as felling. In climbing, face to 4:30 target axis, Dutch to compression side of force axis (6:00) to push to face as make tapered hinge at top pull to same. . Kerf face side (sometimes no other facing)rather than step Dutch: Undercutting a horizontal branch piece and then coming down from top is a kerf Dutch move, inner fold is hinge pivot, face close is Dutch so gives support and takes some load off stretched fibers to not give infections 'courts and galleys' to hide in (Shigo) taking prep and finishing cuts with as little stretch on fibers as possible. Similar kerf or kerf in face of vertical top can give face close and hop over fence; more powerful if make Dutch close sudden impact
    6 replies | 351 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-16-2017
    i think basics are the base level pivotal conceptual building blox; most great finds just a layer or 2 higher than pivotal concepts; after that whatever mechanic gets too many moving pieces as variables to keep in alignment to target. . For me, climbing had been my passion, exercise, yoga even teacher of how world forces work; i dearly miss it! . Just as some martial art student seeks philosophy etc. lessons in 'the knowing' by witnessing same forces of balance in own body; fighting own self as load etc. until can find the flow of it, and be light; 'relaxed good' i found in climbing, positioning , fatiguing etc. i gave it all, and it gave it back; and helped forge me. . Going to be 60 in 2018, don't seem possible; but someday someone/thing is going to say my ride is over; guess i've had a fair run; hope i maid best of it; have many of ye to thank for it! . Some lessons, can only be found at the line between can and can't; and surpassing it; this is where climbing took me to!
    186 replies | 6504 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-14-2017
    Wow, geez, rub it in why don't ya!
    186 replies | 6504 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-13-2017
    i guess what's in a name; Dutch does sound cool; but to be consistent.. . To me, Dutch is an early interruption in path ; but not down field, rather directly in the face of hinge mechanic. . In felling, have used to offset sidelean, and also kinda weave thru other trees in path as field side interruptions >>kinda curve or even bounce head and/or stem thru to open path as filed obstructions to path, at high leveraged positions. >>so use Dutch push in face and other obstacles in filed as pushes in concert. >>have gotten some nice < and > effects; need to have room for some run before bounce generally >>so generally using more of a step/tiered Dutchman rather than kerf type. All of this playing with fire tho, can violate stem/other mechanics cuz so powerful. . So, fer me, reverse Dutch a little counter-intuitive.
    186 replies | 6504 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-13-2017
    Root tensions on blow overs can recoil like a spring suddenly unloaded; when you take the leveraged load off. This can hit you, push saw into you or outright kill you or make you wish it did!! . The first tree (posts 1 & 2); sat up 45 degrees jumped back 14 foot; clear over/leaving red box area; sawyer came running across street and buddy talked to him. . The next tree floating unsupported (post 3); can be worse! It is massive wood, massively leveraged over to parallel with ground, no other support than root tensions!! >>this also introduces the topic of city curb stopping roots from going opposite direction than lean, like if couldn't put guy wire there to support tower >>this and the last 2 trees(post 5) have curb stopping roots on offside also, sidelean increased by same city services trimming the curb/street/offside. . i favour relieving spring tension with reciprocating saw to not get sand in chainsaw; >>sometimes cut some load off; relieve some root tensions in cycles;especially not to increase top bind/ compressions that root tensions are helping to relieve. . In 1st post; i think 2nd man cutting off at red line was a mistake; increased the top bind that it was helping ballast against in midspan; >>especially if looking at relieving some root tensions that are also relieving some top bind compressions >>he bailed, no money, said "i'll be back" words, and never returned >>i also would have put some log under midspan so couldn't sit down as far when cutting, to limit top compressions The sudden violent jump back 14' and upwards pitch could have maimed or killed last man;but he walked away with experience hopefully can decipher over time! . Never sure just how much leveraged load can be relieved; to trigger spring into lethal action! >>if spring reacts when cutting, can get you and sometimes throw ; kinda trebuchet the now loose piece over backwards as it sits up!! >>all actions, all risks on the loaded axis as always watch the 12 and 6 of the tree force lay just like barber chair sitback or rope recoil! . Also: tree in posts#1,2 had no high or even mid root connections to ground for high leverage pull back >>it's total spring came from unseen /below ground. Others do have high and mid pulling roots giving some clues to forces, can feel tensions in roots . Generally we see root rot as in post#1,2 tree reason for fall or flooding ground giving up to healthy roots pulling Generally if roots snapped at near root crown = rot; roots lawn pulled totally up is flooding / ground heave >>sometimes in overly watered(many super green) lawns, roots aren't challenged enough to chase water, and don't grow long enough to leverage support >>but rest of pix in fair drainage; post#3 fault is curb stopping roots from growing in most essential direction against hard lean that had tree over house; last pic/2 trees is similar to smaller scale. . Root rot can be hidden,but some of the rest of these bio-issues are foreseeable; This was area that water was too available, shallow, close roots, super many, they did try to hold;didn't snap off to rot. From 2004 hurricane quad(year of Charley, Frances, Ivey, Jeanne ) that marched thru here:
    14 replies | 510 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-12-2017
    In my imagery/ model to visualize understand by Dutch close face compression to lean side earlier than offside; >>can offer offside as easiest path of relief as a forward position to funnel force flow into >>as hopefully tapered hinge in backfield pulling same direction in unison . Full face Dutch offers no such easy path to the on going rushing forward forces. >> mostly accidentally in felling, so much force charging forward set against itself/no path of relief type trauma >> can use some in dropping shorter horizonal branches >> in topping can sometimes use to slam shut and hop over fence if orchestrated forces right. . So I make distinction between full or lean side Dutch Also look to use same principal 100 times in climbing and bucking and NOT use felling on same job cuz amplified forces very dangerous and can unpredictability violate other mechanic in system, so really with Daniel on that >> may talk/ play in felling terms where forces larges easier to see >> any time not steering into pulling forces >> sometimes elected to not put in easy lay to lean just to test theories, including softer hit by not feeding directly into fiercest gravity pull. . I think stage 1 of Dutch close is push face and hinge compression remains pivot as long as is most loaded event >> push in face stage just relieves part of pivot load of compressed area of hinge But, YES stage2 is when close is most loaded point, massive pivotal change >> all at once taking leverage from load and give it to hinge fibre for greatest ratio change. >> massive change as inertia is flowing >> I think if angle of this stage1 to 2 change if too shallow is worst in felling >> barber chair with folded sit back can be from early close in face or other obstruction to path Overwhelming forces rushing, suddenly no open path seems can also over rule the constitution of the spar especially weak species, deformity, separate outer greener layers on front side from more welded in bone core rings. . Also, where system is at as far as tearoff on lean side, and how fast it can be offers as relief. . In bucking with top compression, many times instead of folding straight up favored fold off to side some, Dutch top offering side as open easier path and tapering hinge to pull same way >> to fold to longer, less loaded path, and use some of tree force to do so. . Face to path, Dutch to to side it wants to go, to push to path you want as easier while tapered hinge pulls same >> real slick when you can get a stone skip pop across type of throw, rather than slower, stalling. . Also favour in climbing sweeping limbs sideways, face to path >> realize can't get true horizontal sweep and offer sliding down path of relief slightly downward >> tapered hinge pulling up as on bottom Dutch close is pushing up
    186 replies | 6504 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-12-2017
    We've seen snap-cuts bulldogged by machinery before; loading system with more forces can resolve as well as create issues; also show exaggerated forces to study in magnification of compressions and tensions . i too generally think of nipping as bark or green layers deep; Preferring to preserve outer extremes on long axis of hinge for steering the center of gravity force point >>into same path as extremes of narrow axis of hinge usher the shape of the tree. >>both axis's relevant. . This space hear, was forged from it's inception to be decidedly different than TB and AS. TB seems to focus more on schooling, certs and racing etc. perhaps trys to seem shinier; AS seems more towards busy sales focus; more newbie crowd at many times; sometimes hard to spell with only 1 S on end. Hear, seems more gritty reality of tuff, dangerous work; the real side of un-reality tv >>also draws in that scope amazingly the families that put of with our tree-affliction, as another real-life balance. . Thanx Butch!
    186 replies | 6504 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-12-2017
    Well, if they do prefer; it not to be to the chin! i've called any spring loaded tree/branch a leaf-spring; mess you up suddenly like tractor suspension letting loose! As Mr. Miyagi says, best way to win that fight tis 'no be there'! . . In seeing tree fails after hurricanes etc. amused to hearing how stupid and untrustworthy the trees are; as surrounded by 1000's of trees that didn't fail!. >>in short order;after some examination generally can steer that around to : how the frick' did that tree stand so long under these conditions!
    14 replies | 510 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-12-2017
    Different tree, no top compression (so all float/support is all spring loaded thru stump/roots); no root rot. Tried to warn guy, said he's depending on city to do; no thanx/maybe next time and had wife close door. less than 1/2 block from me for birds, 3 block drive. . . i always try to find tight roots and sever, sometimes in stages as releasing spar load pieces so roots do help but not hurt/cause sit back up! i like using reciprocating saw for large or lots of roots; handsaw on smaller scenarios>> to keep chainsaw clean/no sand
    14 replies | 510 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-12-2017
    i tried to warn neighbor again, tricky, now more dangerously loaded; choose worker carefully >>they assured me guy#2 would be back to finish, assumed i was selling something and closed door. . i told wifey about this; and she texted me at work one day; job was done that morning (guy#3) and indeed roots had sat up as i said; i checked out on way home and saw much worser than had thought: . . Coulda happened in 1/4 second; massive amount of force relief and pitch; this is some dangerous work! . Some counter lean roots did try to hold, most just snapped; dryish, degraded looking roots for all like some kind of progressive rot allowed release in the high winds. Ground obviously drains well. . In background of pic#3; is guy across street stump too; that tree got pitched 45degrees years ago and miraculously stood until this hurricane, very little root pull, much crown rot, absolute wonder it stood! Lower part of ground, had volcano mulch real bad..
    14 replies | 510 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    11-12-2017
    This tree fell in Hurricane, partially blocked road, few of us civies cut and folded some limbs to open street up 5am day after; neighborhood looked like a war zone. We live on a DeadEnd of another DeadEnd(yeah, no surprise); no electric (which went 10days,then no internet) so in/out was a very primary concern of survival! 1st guy made deal for all but worst hauled huge load in 1 'emergency' service in/out/next early one morning, had huge truck and loader; knocked the dog shit out of this part of our holocaust, clean and legit out of state pro.. . Newer, Pakastani neighbors not so easy to talk to, when i saw some one looking at tree, i talked to them later and tried to tell how dangerous it was and needed to really make sure got right guy. They assumed i was selling (which i get) and said other guy was doing, maybe next time and closed door rather promptly. Another guy came along days later, and i'd think made it worser and left; promised would return. .
    14 replies | 510 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    10-20-2017
    That's really great! . i remember when a lot of us gathered before here; we had another hurricane with all kinds of trees down (lot less now). A buddy had inherited a house that twin massive live oaks floating about 2 o'clock over it >>trees now almost ripped from ground, but then other trees laying across and under base stem to support and anchor, it was a mess. . Insurance would pay for house, but he didn't want to lose it, but then not much money, offered $300 1 Sunday to drop trees anywhere, try to miss house, real low-income area. Cranes and crews down the road like in a flurry of bidding wars. . i cut down a small junk tree in swing path to open ground. In short did facing over to down side away from house, then dutch kerf under house side of facing. 066 sporting a 42" didn't quite reach across. Cut down into close dutch on house side and carried the motion of the tree to flow into the facing, pulled by tapered hinge. >> working in unison , as a flow in swing concept init by down to empower and push/pull over at same time Spars were long and heavy at extreme angle to load extremely and Live Oak is mighty fine wood where other woods mite not have done so well i'd played with this stuff before, not on this scale/at this angle; but had re-proved all to myself again! . i wished everyone was down here with cameras. i chickened out on drawing any attention, figured if anyone watched i'd certainly crush the house on the 6pm news! #2 went just as well! Meanwhile at AS the discussion on my lil'discussion on Tapered Hinge was not going so well; even tho i acknowledged i was crazy; i still insisted tapered hinge was not! Dutchman for felling/bucking/climbing was way to much! . gotta run to werk
    170 replies | 18665 view(s)
More Activity

1 Visitor Messages

  1. Kenny,
    How's it going?

    I AM coming south to hlton Head SC with a stump grinder or two and a skid steer loader.
    Are you interestd in doing some operating or sales work in FLorida. I'd like to skip back and forth between SC and FL with the stump grinders. Don't rememer where in FL you are. If that doesn;t work for you maybe you know sonewone looking for work.
    Let me know.
    Thanks,
    Daniel
    804-283-3214
Showing Visitor Messages 1 to 1 of 1
About theTreeSpyder

Basic Information

Signature


"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt. ~

Statistics


Total Posts
Total Posts
175
Posts Per Day
0.25
Visitor Messages
Total Messages
1
Most Recent Message
10-16-2016
General Information
Last Activity
1 Week Ago
Join Date
02-12-2016
Referrals
0