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sotc
08-05-2012, 10:31 AM
So I have a job coming up where the cable will go through the tree at a steeper than 90 degree angle. This will put a kink in the cable between the rigguy and the exit hole. Any experience with solutions to this or is this the bad part of rigguy?

bonner1040
08-05-2012, 11:15 AM
No help. Maybe just use an amon,.

MasterBlaster
08-05-2012, 11:16 AM
Amon?

bonner1040
08-05-2012, 11:23 AM
http://www.westerntree.biz/assets/images/default/products/1258.jpg

Assuming you are drilling through the tree for the rigguy just put an appropriate sized rod with one of those and pre-wrap/pre-form the cable to the eye with a thimble. That should eliminate any concerns over angle.

bonner1040
08-05-2012, 11:35 AM
Not that any of this is new but a nice PDF with some good pictures that I found:

http://www.agriculture.purdue.edu/fnr/urbanforestry/pdf/06CablingBracing.pdf

Has some nice shots of older systems taken out.

sotc
08-05-2012, 11:50 AM
Nice link but let's stick with rigguy for now. I have the other options.

MasterBlaster
08-05-2012, 11:53 AM
Amon?

Google doesn't help.

SouthSoundTree
08-05-2012, 12:08 PM
amon eye, a combo of nut and ring that can be put on the inside side of the through-bolt, allowing standard cable to be wrapped with a thimble. Probably ehs cable and preforms, but I don't know anything much about preforms.

aka eye nuts http://www.wesspur.com/cabling/cabling.html

Porkbrick
08-05-2012, 01:05 PM
what ive done with the rigguy is countersink the outside of the hole with a spade bit large enough so that the nut sits flat in the bottom of the hole. does that make sense? or use a chisel or gouge to make a flat for the nut to seat against.

sotc
08-05-2012, 03:45 PM
Yeah, I considered that but wondered about the large breech of cambium. Structurally it seems like a good idea, biologically, I am not sure. It may allow codit wall 4 to work faster but may compromise the other walls more rapidly

Porkbrick
08-05-2012, 04:40 PM
i think of it this way: ive already made a wound by drilling the hole for the cable (or rod), if i make the counter sunk hole cleanly and only deep enough to seat the nut, then i dont think that adds a significant stress to the codit response. remember that the nut is crushing the tissue underneath in a normal installation. not as easy an entry for pathogens for sure but the cambium is killed none the less. also, on thicker barked trees, you may not have to drill as deep as the cambium to get a good seat for the nut. i might change my plan if the tree in question was a poor compartmentalizer, maybe go with a non invasive system.

DMc
08-05-2012, 05:18 PM
Structurally it seems like a good idea, biologically, I am not sure.

We counter sink the nut on Rigguys if the angle is really steep as we also do with through bolt nuts. I don't use cables or bolts if there is any other way to mitigate the problem, so when I do, the holes drilled are normally the least of the tree's problems. You can often just flatten the outer bark enough that the primary cambium is barely touched. But if you have to, you have to.

Can you elaborate on how counter sinking the nut will alter wall 4 and the rest of CODIT beyond the activity caused buy the drilling of the primary hole?

Dave

sotc
08-05-2012, 05:30 PM
The other 3 walls are breached deeper than the bark for the area outside the first hole already allowing more surface area,deeper, for pathogens to begin. My thinking on wall 4 was, rather than the cambium being impacted and probably dying under the "washer" before the callus can grow over it, it can begin to form immediately. Seems worthy of discussion, don't you think?

sotc
08-05-2012, 08:22 PM
Shoot, did I run y'all off?

MasterBlaster
08-05-2012, 08:28 PM
Not me. I'm here... :drink:

sotc
08-05-2012, 08:37 PM
I saw a couple people hanging in the thread, I was hoping they would post up some more

Tucker943
08-05-2012, 08:43 PM
While I admire your professionalism and thorough understanding of your actions Willie, I seem to think you are over analyzing.

Porkbrick
08-05-2012, 08:47 PM
i see your point. how big a hole are we talking here (for the countersink)? rigguy nuts are around 3/4"-1" wide? and again the damage to the phloem depends on the thickness of the bark. i would think too that a clean hole will begin to callus very quickly, and if the size of the hole is well matched to the dia of the nut, then the wound is sealed quickly as well.

Tucker943
08-05-2012, 08:51 PM
Cabling and bracing is invasive. In the case we are talking about anyhow. I know the goal is to minimize the collateral damage while maximizing the integrity of your work. However, its a tree, not an infants brain. I'd say be sure to make clean wounds with razor sharp tools, and leave it at that. We aren't talking 18" wounds.

sotc
08-05-2012, 08:56 PM
However, its a tree, not an infants brain

Haha, perhaps I am over thinking it:D

NickfromWI
08-06-2012, 08:28 AM
Perhaps it's because it's early in the morning as I read this, but I'm not picturing why the angle of the hole you drill is going to kink the cable. Can you clarify?

love
nick

sotc
08-06-2012, 04:25 PM
This is the email from rigguy in response to my query



Sure - First Thanks for using our products Willie!
I think the best way to address this issue is to either cut out a flat seat for the Wire Stop or use a 45 degree washer. I can make one for you if you would want me to.
That being said, An EHS cable will take a side loading much better that a eye bolt because of the cables malleability. We have never have a report of a failure from the cable being side loaded.

sotc
08-06-2012, 04:27 PM
Nick, the rigguy is going to lay flat against the tree no matter the angle the hole comes through the branch

treelooker
08-06-2012, 10:14 PM
Nick, the rigguy is going to lay flat against the tree no matter the angle the hole comes through the branch

So it's not an infant's brain--it is still alive.

The use of 45 degree washers is well recommended. I would not take side loading lightly.

NickfromWI
08-08-2012, 12:43 AM
Now I totally get it. I'm dealing with a similar issue while thru-rodding trees. The idea of an angled washer intrigues me!

SouthSoundTree
08-08-2012, 07:26 AM
Where are these available, aside from Rigguy?

sotc
08-08-2012, 07:54 AM
Hardware stores

NickfromWI
08-10-2012, 02:58 AM
I found them online. $5 each. If I can find the right size it would be worth carrying two steepnesses. A 45 and a 22.5 degree.

http://www.webriggingsupply.com/pages/catalog/stainless-steel-cable-rails/angle-washers.html

People seem to really think its a great idea. I am thinking the rigguy would sorta just situate themselves properly in the tree given a big enough load. I wish I could do testing on it.

love
nick