Trippy Old Silver Maple we saved!

RopeArmour

TreeHouser
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
1,119
Location
Cambridge, Ontario Canada
This mature tree has survived alot.
The new owners got 3 recommendations to ctg.
I suggested crown reduction. Tree is healthy, just some big hollows and cavities and after installing a rope and weighting/swaying/shaking it, all looked and felt safe.
Once in the tree and wiggling around in it to get a feel for the wood and attachments I was comfortable enough to rope down a couple large leads to close to the house to leave, pieces close to 100 or so pounds.
Feels real good saving this tree. The client and neighbours think I am a hero.
Purposely did this tree on a Saturday. So the day awayers see the truck and signage.

Tree should stand for another generation.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ropearmour?feature=mhum
 
The canopy looks too thin to me now. I would expect it to get even more sun scald damage and to be in even worse shape a few years from now.
 
You didnt save that tree!

You gave the owners false hope that the tree is more than what it is.

It amazes me to what lengths some arborists go to to preserve trees that shouldn't be preserved. That tree is going to hurt or kill someone someday.

Please describe the "thorough" inspection that was done which deemed it safe to preserve and climb. Dont take this personally, but I think you have your head up your arse. You got so worked up about whether or not you could "save" the tree, when you should have asked yourself whether you should.
 
Hey, if it were you, Id say the same thing, and you know it. But I know the only pruning you would do, would be basil pruning. I call em like I see em!
 
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  • #7
What's that about the bark tracing to reduce sprouting? thanks.

It can help to reduce sprouts or encourage a latent bud to differentiate to a sprout. It will concentrate hormones as they are being translocated from the bud opening. Hormone is primaraily to inhibit the growth of laterals that could compete with the leader and also to stimulate root growth.
The wound will tie up a certain amount of energy and water. So the main leads you see in the vid that were reduced recieved 3 to 4 traces.

I have been practicing this for over ten years and have had pretty good control. Timing is everything.

Doing a big crown reduction we are always faced with the possibility of heavy sprouting. This is one way to reduce sprouting.
The other way is to time the pruning after leaf out and just before the leaves harden up. So alot of the energy has been expended, leaving little more for sprouting.

Originally this technique was taught to me to encourage flowering/fruiting. Apples, pears and ornamental flowering trees.
It is also used for Bonsai's and in young tree training to encourage branching on a bare side of the stem.
In the UK the talk is to use it in the cultivation of Veteran trees, kinda like what is done in our video.

I started using it to control a Norway in my parents Fy about ten years ago. It was young and vigorous and gave me alot of opportunity to experiment and see the results.

I think it has alot of potential and there is mention of it in our most well known text. Arboriculture Intergrated Mangement of landscape Trees, Shrubs and Vines by Richard W. Harris
 
I also would have recommended removal... Looked like most of what was left of it was epicormic growth anyway. More of a liability than a tree I would "salvage".
I vote removal and replant a nice tree for the next generations to enjoy. Over My House Yoda.jpg

JMO and .02 worth.... :)

But I am sure Guy (Treelooker) is gonna love ya for what you did :D
And you made the HO happy.
 
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  • #9
The canopy looks too thin to me now. I would expect it to get even more sun scald damage and to be in even worse shape a few years from now.

Don't worry it will grow. I pruned maximum 30% Tip/crown reduction, so primarily in the tips with a little crown clean.
Silvers are thin trees to begin with. Sunscald is not an issue when the tree is pruned leafless.

You can see in the buds and increments of growth that this tree won't slow down for anything.

How would you chose to manage it?
 
At about 3:17 in the video you show a branch that is hollowed out on top. That looks like sun scald damage from over-pruning in the past. When I see that I try to leave the trees fuzzy with lots of water sprouts to give the bark some heat shielding. In the case of your tree, I would have recommended removal and replacement. You've reduced the top weight and made it safer in the short term but I expect it will continue on its downward spiral.
 
Way to sugar coat it Darin!


Ropearmour, do you really believe sunscald doesnt occur during dormancy?

Man o man, have I got a sweet deal for you............


images
 
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  • #13
You didnt save that tree!

You gave the owners false hope that the tree is more than what it is.

It amazes me to what lengths some arborists go to to preserve trees that shouldn't be preserved. That tree is going to hurt or kill someone someday.

Please describe the "thorough" inspection that was done which deemed it safe to preserve and climb. Dont take this personally, but I think you have your head up your arse. You got so worked up about whether or not you could "save" the tree, when you should have asked yourself whether you should.

I think if you ask the tree the same question, what might be the response?
Ask the owners about hope. That is not what was sold. What was is with the commitment to continued maintenance and inspection most any tree can live forever. How does that 3 000 yr old tree survive on rock escarpment with out our intervention.
Here we have skill, knowledge, tools and the cohones to make it so. Why would I choose anything else but maintainance.
We can put a man on the moon, peform feats of strength to the wonder and awe of the world and here we have the opportunity to work with the largest living organisms on the planet that provides our breath.

How are you rating this tree? What are your criteria. Where is your analysis of the data? When did you collect the observations.
Please, I remove trees and have been called a butcher and removal machine and take great pleasure in riggin wood and chunckin cookies from on high but there has got to be some major strikes against it and the target is just a landscape.
You got be there to see this old Vet. Its too cool of a tree to drop.

I will call them or drive by and have a look and watch for fractures and oddities in growth.
I have taken ownership of this tree.
Could, should, its not up to me its up to the tree. If tree said ctg, I would but that is not the case.
I monkeyed around in it and self rigged some descent size limbs on the house side.
It would take a very very unusual storm to blow that tree down.

I install the rope, weight the tree, wiggle, rock and shake and look for non rigid movement. if it rolls around like a wet paper roll or shows the untypical movement then I have some calculating to do based on past experience.
This case it was safe to climb and then once in the crown there is more of the same to do and during the whole process of pruning I perform the same rockin shakin to feel confident i have pruned enough or that I can comfortabley walk away from the tree knowing no one will be hurt and the home will not be damaged.

Hows that? Is this a clearer picture as to what was accomplished?

In five years the crown will be reinspected much the same way and at that time cultural recommendations will follow. I am confident, removal will not be one of them.

I am in the business of 1st maintaining trees and 2nd when necassary to remove.
The next generation of arborists are learning from us. What do you want them to hear?
 
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  • #15
At about 3:17 in the video you show a branch that is hollowed out on top. That looks like sun scald damage from over-pruning in the past. When I see that I try to leave the trees fuzzy with lots of water sprouts to give the bark some heat shielding. In the case of your tree, I would have recommended removal and replacement. You've reduced the top weight and made it safer in the short term but I expect it will continue on its downward spiral.

The tree is vigorous and there was no fuzzy to begin with.
 
Maybe its regional but that silver looks too thinned out. I wager the original damage done to that tree was over-pruning. I am skeptical the more pruning on an over-pruned tree will have any positive results. I hope you are right and I am wrong but that is how I see it.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Maybe its regional but that silver looks too thinned out. I wager the original damage done to that tree was over-pruning. I am skeptical the more pruning on an over-pruned tree will have any positive results. I hope you are right and I am wrong but that is how I see it.

If it looks to thinned out, you would see bright white little pruning spots all over the tree. Southern Ontario Silvers growth habit is alot like this aside from the odd branching/ multi-leader thing happening.
 
I guess I should have just pruned this one a little instead of felling it.

My Bad.

P1000356.JPG
 
RopeArmour,
I hate to jump on you but in this instance I feel compelled to throw in my .02. It was your responsibility to put that tree on the ground. I myself, try to find every option other than a removal but when the tree is shot, thats it. All those cavities we see on that tree...are they going to heal off? Or will they continue to collect water and spread decay? One or 2 funny spots is one thing. Rot and cavities all over a tree like that is another. The other 3 tree services were right and with all due respect, you need to take this stuff a little more seriously.
 
It was your responsibility to put that tree on the ground.

That's not true. The customer wants to try and keep the tree, so what's the problem? As long as there aren't any real targets to speak of, again I axe - what's the problem? Water in cavities is harmless.
 
I have seen silver maples trimmed back so hard you'd swear it would kill them but ugly as they were they survived some how .

Never have I ever professed to know much of anything about trees other than the fact I can put them on the ground .However it seems from my observation that just a very few limbs of a silver maple that can produce leaves will keep them alive .
 
Silver maples are a weed tree IMO that made me some decent coin last year. If that is what the HO wants that's what they get, they are the ones writing the checks. The best you can do is to inform them and give them your professional opinion and they can take it or leave it. Oh and maybe get them to sign a waiver releasing you from liability should the tree go south. Personally I would have removed the tree.
 
Silver maples are a weed tree IMO that made me some decent coin last year. If that is what the HO wants that's what they get, they are the ones writing the checks. The best you can do is to inform them and give them your professional opinion In writing, on the quote they signedand they can take it or leave it. Oh and maybe get them to sign a waiver releasing you from liability should the tree go south. Personally I would have removed the tree.

I agree with a little add on.
I also agree, you now own it and the liability,
This is not meant to bash on you by any means but don't just blow off anyone that disagrees. Also, hard to tell from pictures but it still looks like alot of weight and leverage on those types of wounds. And just because you over thin a tree in dormant season doesn't prevent the sun from burning the thin bark and phloem
 
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