The problem with spurs?

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Knotahippie

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Was out this last weekend looking at some trees. Saw these two almost right away. Seen this problem numerous times in live oaks, never had the camera ready though.
 

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That's pretty much the 'McDonalds' standard of treework that most consumers choose. Cheap and quick and they get exactly what they ask for. Cut the lower limbs from over the roof/swingset/yard and don't break anything. The majority of tree services provide just such treework. Those that strive to do better are the minority.

I'm still having to turn down topping jobs. :roll:
 
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Dunno if the trees are going to die...someday. They look pretty good right now, minus the lions tail pruning.

Very poor soil conditions though. They think the trees were pruned a few years ago, but not sure by who. They didn't notice the dark stains on the trunk either.

Looks like water mold to me?

Quercus agrifolia for sure.
 
All damage to live tissue is compromising.

If not for the cohesion chain of water, trees probably would be 3' tall or so. But, any violation to a cappilary/vessel can introduce air/ give air embolism, and break the cohesion chain. So, both ends of vessel, need plugged to maintain. Water/nutrients now need to follow new path of least resistance/ through vessel wall into neighboring vessel (or at least try to). This takes more werk for same food, and has some loss of quantity too. This can give some loss on both ends-leaves as draw by transpiration output; and roots as input as well.

Minimizing damage would be proper and minimal damage, no crushing compressions on vessels, and no spiking or other violations as well. If, committed to maximizing health and beauty, spiking is not the answer.
 
Great pix of spur damage. Thanks for posting them.
In the first pix the tree in the middle looks like it has armallaria
 
Geez, that is really bad. Even doing a removal I wouldn't mark a small tree up that bad using spurs. Looks like someone had real heavy feet and was really digging them in with every step. Poor tree :cry:

I have to ask this question. Has the professionalism gone down the crapper these days. I see more and more bad treework being done. It is like we are going backwards instead of forward.

It has gotten to the point that people don't care who they hire.

I have seen some really bad work from so called other certified arborists. I for one didn't renew my ISA dues and I am not going to reup my certification because I just don't think it matters anymore.
 
There's always going to be some bad examples that we can point to and say, "look! bad" But in the big picture I see a lot more awareness in the industry towards better treework than in the past.
 
gf beranek said:
There's always going to be some bad examples that we can point to and say, "look! bad" But in the big picture I see a lot more awareness in the industry towards better treework than in the past.
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Im completly disagree with that but maybe in california its true , but you know southern cali is covered in mexican climber and they love to top top top.
Back in the early 90's i could get paid really well for quality work here in my city , now its all about the numbers.
look at Atlanta to , that place has gone to the dogs all foreign illegal workers doing alot of crap tree work.
one of the owners of a really big tree service has trimmed the fat so badly he told me that a 1 percent change in his workmans comp would totally eliminate his profit for the year , totally.
That guy came in trying to be the wal mart of tree work and now hesso stressed he can barely breath.
I say its going to the dogs boys
i just lost another big job on the basis of less than 5 % difference in price to a known hacker.
actually the word hack is gaining speed and becoming respecatble now as if you are a hack then you can get the job done fast and cheap...
 
I guess if you read between the lines and think of awarness in the tree industry as knowing proper procedures then yes i can agree actually ,
But for sure no one is following any of it .
 
Its the same over here in many ways from what I see.

The trouble is and allways will be that those that want to be educated will be, those that dont will just carry on.

The real push for educating people should be to educate the customer/client. I always get told that we are in the best position to do that. In reallity some may be willing to listen but most just want to know how much and when, so we will only ever get to educate a very small minority.

Environmental consideration is more in peoples thoughts that ever before, this should be capitalised on for promoting best practice with regards to tree care.
To be effective I believe this must be done at a high level but I cant ever see it happening.
 
darkstar said:
Im completly disagree with that but maybe in california its true , but you know southern cali is covered in mexican climber and they love to top top top.
Click to expand...

Around here I see more good tree work than bad IF you exclude the clearance companies. We have plenty of hacks but we also have plenty of well trained pro arborists. Bartlett keeps training them and they keep quitting and going elsewhere because their management is so shitty.

Best tree crew I've ever seen , bar none, was a family of guys from El Salvador, with a CA running the show. I think to say Mexicans top, top, top is a gross generalization and not remotely accurate. Around here it's the old school guys that still top... white guys, black guys, whatever, but all thoroughly American.

It's the CUSTOMER that needs educating so they will know what practices are acceptable and how to reach and deal with professionals rather than the hacks.
 
I just did a bid last weekend where the customer asked me to re-top a tree that had been topped once before. After I explained why topping is bad, she asked what proof I had. Apparently the guy who topped the trees gave her a pretty convincing argument why topping is good. Now here I stand telling her it's bad, so it was my word against his. Since I didn't have the scientific studies in my pocket to show her, she assumed I was just blowing smoke. :X It would seem there are others out there trying to educate customers as well, just not with facts.
 
Point well taken, i have a buddy in santa barbera who runs a rop notch tree crew of mexicans .
He its high class .
He constanly complains however about all the other hacks.
foreign ones by the way
 
Bounce said:
I just did a bid last weekend where the customer asked me to re-top a tree that had been topped once before. After I explained why topping is bad, she asked what proof I had. Apparently the guy who topped the trees gave her a pretty convincing argument why topping is good. Now here I stand telling her it's bad, so it was my word against his. Since I didn't have the scientific studies in my pocket to show her, she assumed I was just blowing smoke. :X It would seem there are others out there trying to educate customers as well, just not with facts.
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I always answer that one like this...

The tree needs all it's foliage to make enough food to live and store reserves to get through lean periods. Take away some of that foliage and it will make less reserves until it grows back, take away a lot of foliage and it won't be able to make enough food to live so it makes that up with stored reserves... which it can longer replenish. It also stresses the tree and makes it more susceptible to disease. Sometimes they have adequate reserves to restore the foliage over time. But if they don't, eventually, it will exhaust it's reserves and die.


Short version...
Topping is bad because it can starve the tree and kill the shit out of it.
 
I think the bad practices rot extends as far as the landscape architects/city planners etc etc who come out of school and preach planting all these crappy species
 
darkstar said:
but you know southern cali is covered in mexican climber and they love to top top top.
Click to expand...

You know Northern California is covered in waspish mothers and they love to shop shop shop.


Sorry, I just loved your sentence for some reason.
 
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