Steam Powered Locomotives

[stehansen]

I've always been kind of fascinated by steam power. I didn't realize that China has been using steam locomotives until very recently. I've been kind of addicted to watching them on youtube. My kids have already informed me about how just confirms what a huge dork I am.

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[sotc]

Good thing it's on tracks or the engineer would have to sit on the cow catcher to see where he was going!

[CurSedVoyce]

Steve, Steam Locomotives are very cool and I have loved them since childhood ;) I like the way they kind of have their own heart beat/sound :)

[stehansen]

I'm guessing their cab is all full of steam when it's like that.

[CurSedVoyce]

There is a train park in So Cal I used to go to when I was a kid. You could never get me off the dang things.. Never got to ride in the cab while it was going though. Just as a passenger in a passenger car on a couple steam trains. I should take the ride up here. Just have not done it yet :)

[Thor's Hammer]

I share your dorky fascination Steve. Steam Loco's have always captivated me. The only problem with a video is you dont get the smell - that heady mixture of hot metal, oil, steam and coal smoke. Intoxicating.

We have lots of narrow gauge railways in my area, these are all within 20 miles of me - If you know of Thomas the tank engine, many of the stories were based on these engines.

Ffestiniog Railway - Fairilse loco
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[Altissimus]

Gone are the days ... they used to build them over in Troy New York ...

[stig]

A lot of east european countries still use steam, as do India and a lot of other 3rd world countries.

Some years back, a bunch of german engineers designed a steampowered train, which was way more fuel efficient than dieselpower.
Since most dieselpowered trains here work by having a diesel motor run a generator and then in turn an electric engine, they substituted a steam turbine for the diesel motor.
It

[sothere]

My pal Ike chases this Loco. in his Model A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIB6b0HPTXI

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[Tree Reb]

I used to go to school on one like this. Nice to remember, but a bit dirty.

[Can't embed it]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqP5_aGKcf0&feature=related

This one explains it, sort of.

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[Al Smith]

Gone are the days ... they used to build them over in Troy New York ... Lima Ohio as well . Baldwin -Lima -Hamilton . I worked there after the era of steam locomotives as a welder .

[Dave Shepard]

Steam is an amazing power source.

I was watching a movie set in the south of England the other night and one of the characters had to stop for a passenger train. You don't notice the scale at first, until the engineer pop his head out the top of the engine like a prairie dog.:lol: That was the tiniest train I've ever seen.

[sotc]

It really is Dave! So consistent and it expands 1600 times it's volumn when converted from liquid! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam

[stehansen]

Stig, do they use steam because that way they can use coal as their power source (which I think they have) and don't have to use diesel which they would have to buy? Because I think there are a lot of old 1950's and 60's diesel electrics available to buy pretty cheap. We have a small railroad here that is owned by a local family and they use 1950's diesel electrics. They buy them for almost nothing and then spend a couple of years re-wiring them and they throw on a coat of paint and they look pretty good. http://www.metrr.com/sections/locomotives
We had a set of Southern Pacific tracks about a half mile from the house we lived at until I was 12 and I can never remember a steam engine on it. I do remember the passenger terminal in my hometown but I don't think it was being used anymore. Some farmer bought it and is using it as a fruit stand. The tracks are now owned by the California Northern and run between Tracy and Los Banos.
TreeReb, I suppose it would be pretty dirty.

[stig]

No, the idea was to use diesel as a heat source.
Apparently you get a better fuel economy when you use the fuel to heat water instead of to expand in a cylinder and move a piston.

When I was a kid,I grew up way out in the sticks ( way out in the sticks for Denmark, that is!) and the small local railroad still used steam.
Every time I went to Copenhagen to visit my grandparents, the first leg of the journey( which took a day btw..........today I can drive it in 3 hrs.) was by steam locomotive.

The last time a steam locomotive has run for real( as opposed to those kept running by train enthusiasts) was in the severe winter of 1977-78. The whole country was closed by snow. Then someone remembered that the danish railroad company had a HUGE snowplow, basically a whole trainwagon of steel and concrete with a plow on the front end. It only fit onto the steam locomotive it had been build for, so they dusted the old engine off, and had it clearing tracks untill it hit the mother of all snowdrifts and got derailed.
That was the end of the steam era in Denmark.

[Old Monkey]

I come from a long line of train geeks. My grandpa used to work on the Feather River line in California.

[Al Smith]

I'm old enough to remember steam powered trains from the early 50's .By mid fifties to late 50's they were all but gone .

[stehansen]

Yeah, I think I just missed it. I don't remember much before 1960.

[woodworkingboy]

There is a train park in So Cal I used to go to when I was a kid.

Travel town! Cool place. All those levers to pull!

There is still one steam locomotive in regular service here, and occasionally the railroad company does a special gig where they have a steam loco going through towns. I can see the station from my house, the other side of the rice fields. You can hear that whistle a long way off.

[BlackSmith]

Steam is still alive in WV. http://www.cassrailroad.com/

[stehansen]

Cool, I've ridden on the train in Santa Cruz, CA.

[Al Smith]

Steam is still alive in WV. http://www.cassrailroad.com/ Those Shay geared locomotives were all made at the Lima locomotive works which later became BLH ,where I worked .

Actually some time in the early 80's I deer hunted in the same area as the Cass scenic railroad .

[stehansen]

Are those the ones that have a pinion and a bevel gear and the bevel is on the wheel? If so that's what the Santa Cruz engine had. If I remember right it also had some cogs on the front wheel and in the really steep places they had a "rack" along the track for the cogs to fit into. Most of the small railroads in California were installed to service either a mine or a lumbermill.

[stig]

I think one of those Shays is still running up in Mendocino county, CA.
I can't remember the name of the railroad, but Jerry Beranek would know, I'm sure.

[stehansen]

The Skunk Train?
Dur, I forgot we have the internet now.
http://www.skunktrain.com/

[Bodean]

Steam is awesome, I have many family members working with steam still.

My little cousin is a steamer mate on one of the last 5 US Navy Steamships.

[Al Smith]

Are those the ones that have a pinion and a bevel gear and the bevel is on the wheel? Yes they are .Originally designed by a lumber baron by the name of Shay from Michigan .

This one is on static display in the podunk town I grew up in .It saw service for Tioga lumber company in West Virginia .

All the wheels drive including those of the tender .

[Frans]

Man I love checking out rail engines.
Check these guys out
http://www.rootsofmotivepower.com/

They come to the logging shows with their steam donkeys

I like how in England you can see very well built up track systems and cars on narrow gauge.

[sotc]

The Skunk Train?
Dur, I forgot we have the internet now.
http://www.skunktrain.com/

I rode that as a kid, think I still have the ticket stubs:)

[Thor's Hammer]

Are those the ones that have a pinion and a bevel gear and the bevel is on the wheel? If so that's what the Santa Cruz engine had. If I remember right it also had some cogs on the front wheel and in the really steep places they had a "rack" along the track for the cogs to fit into. Most of the small railroads in California were installed to service either a mine or a lumbermill.

steve, the 3rd vid I posted is a cog driven mountain railway. it climbs 3000 ft to the top of mt Snowdon.

[Frans]

I think if I won the lottery I would build a narrow gauge system on some property.
Talk about playing with trains!

[stig]

If you are really into this stuff, buy Hank Johnson's: "The whistles blow no more"
It is a great book about railroad logging in the Sierra Nevada 1874-1942. good reading, lots of pictures.

[woodworkingboy]

I bet that shoving the coal into the engine would get you in good shape.
Don't know about narrow gauge though.

[stehansen]

I was reading about the QJ locomotives in China and it said that there is a mechanical device to deliver the coal to the fire box but it usually breaks down pretty quick and is never fixed. It takes two guys to shovel the coal in there and that they work in 10 to 15 minute shifts.

[Al Smith]

Trivia 101 : On the Norfolk Southern rail road near Ada Ohio in 1905 a speed record which still rates high was set .127 miles per hour .3 miles in 87 seconds ,can you imagine .:O

That section of track is still there ,Amtrac now. .NY city to Chicago,road it several times myself to Chicago and from NYC to Ohio when I was in the navy but not at 100 plus MPH for sure .

[Frans]

It amazes me how long rails and railcars and rail engines last. In Brazil they still are using to this day cars from the 'Key' system which covered much of california

[woodworkingboy]

It must be a special deal to be shoveling in the coal in China, if you stop and think about all the miners that are constantly getting killed providing it.

[Al Smith]

In this country they built the steamers to burn whatever coal was in the region .The "Allegany" class freight engines used the hard Kentucky and Pa coal that is in this area .

The western locomotives had large fireboxes to burn western "rosebud " which was about 14 percent moisture coming out of the ground ,Wyoming coal . It doesn't contain as many btu's per ton as the KY coal .

When we moved to this area in '53 the Erie Lackawana had a round house where they did maintainence on the big steamers .It was the amount of maintainance plus the amount of track a steamer tore up that ultimently lead to it's demise .

The Electomotive division of General Motors sold diesel locomotives to the railroads on stictly the savings in track repairs .Those big old behemouths were tough on the rails .

My friends father was comtroller of GM Electomotive in La Grange at one time .Did he ever have the stories .Besides that ,the old boy could put away the scotch telling them .:lol:

[stehansen]

Are any of the water towers left in your part of the country Al?

[Al Smith]

Only the bases where they once stood .

About 25 years ago there was special a steam commemeration run through Ohio with I think a Lima built steamer .From Bellefountain Ohio to Kenton is about 30-35 Miles . In that few miles it sucked down a few thousand gallons of water and burned around 30 tons of coal .

They filled the water tender from a fire truck ,used a clam shell crane for the coal and it hissed and snorted and was on it's way towards Toledo .

If I'm not mistaken the Santa Fe still has two operating steamers they use for excursion runs . Biguns,the 5000 HP jobs .

[stehansen]

I'll take my camera the next time I go to Westley. There is one there that is still standing. One ton of coal to the mile.:D I think the nearest coal deposits to here are in Utah.

[thattreeguy]

there is a steam up occasionally at fort humboldt state park in eureka
and the steam engine group that runs it just picked up another locomotive and sent it to PA i believe for refurbishing
the forrest service ids asking for 1200 bucks for the permit to have the once a month steam ups now, so they may not do anymore. there is some old steam donkeys there too. worth the time if your out for an adventure in nor cal
the same group is trying to get an engine to go around the humboldt bay similar to the skunk train
the current locomotive is from Falk a now defunct lumber town up here..

[mryb]

I drove a steam train one time. You gotta be careful not to go too far with the lever or the drive wheels will spin...

[stehansen]

A friend of my parent's was in the service in Japan shortly after the end of WWII and was put on guard duty at a train station. One day some GI's came pulling up in a Japanese steam engine and were lost and had stopped to get directions from Frank. He started asking them about the train and they said "you wanna drive it?". So he says hell yeah and got to go for a little excursion down the track and back and he said that he opened up the steam valve a little too much and spun the wheels also.

[mryb]

It doesn't take much. One extra click will do it...

[Al Smith]

Mike Acres wrote me an E-mail one time about his early days as saw mechanic in a huge lumber camp in the NW Territories I believe .The camp delivered over a million board feet of logs per day to the mill pond by way of several hundred miles of back woods rail spurs with diesel electric locomotives .

Low and behold the steam boiler went on the blink that supplied heat for a camp .It gets cold as dead witchs tit in that area .:O

It just so happened they had an old Shay steamer setting on a spur which wasn't used much .They connected that old duffer to the piping and it made steam for the camp until repairs were made to the boiler .

[Bodean]

Just got back from Ft. Bragg area.

Here's a steam donkey.

[stehansen]

Crap man, that's so awesome!

[CurSedVoyce]

Would have loved to watch that donkey run! Too cool!

[aceruk]

This is "Tornado", the last steam locomotive to have been built in the UK..completed last year at a cost of £3m!


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[olyman]

man!! that thing was hauling yass !! know how fast it was going??

[olyman]

Only the bases where they once stood .

About 25 years ago there was special a steam commemeration run through Ohio with I think a Lima built steamer .From Bellefountain Ohio to Kenton is about 30-35 Miles . In that few miles it sucked down a few thousand gallons of water and burned around 30 tons of coal .

They filled the water tender from a fire truck ,used a clam shell crane for the coal and it hissed and snorted and was on it's way towards Toledo .

If I'm not mistaken the Santa Fe still has two operating steamers they use for excursion runs . Biguns,the 5000 HP jobs .
the onion pacific has a large steamer still running on special occasions--rebuilt by the employees, on their own time. they are even thinking about rebuilding the largest steamer ever built. a 4-8-4?? as al said, heavy muthas--

[MasterBlaster]

This is "Tornado", the last steam locomotive to have been built in the UK..completed last year at a cost of £3m!

It's a work of art.

[Al Smith]

they are even thinking about rebuilding the largest steamer ever built. a 4-8-4?? as al said, heavy muthas-- If that is truely the case that engine would be most likely a Lima built Allegany .It surpased even the ALNICO big boy that was used to haul iron ore from the massabi range .We are talking over 500 tons ,locomotive plus tender and capable of I think 8500 HP with the right boiler .

The big boys hauled massive loads but only at around 35 mph while a Alleganys made about 55-60 .

The Alleganys usually ran the coal trains coming out of northern Virginia plus the mountains of Pa.

[olyman]

yup, just looked at steam pics, and thats what it was. called the "big boy" said was largest steam loco ever built!!! what a animal--howd you like to shovel coal to that hog??? argghhhhh ya, and theres still not a diesel built with that much hp--crazy power of steam--

[Al Smith]

I have a pretty good idea that the later steamers were stoker fed instead of hand shoveled .

[Thor's Hammer]

Well worth reading - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_Big_Boy

When German spies in ww2 send back word of vast American locomotives pulling war trains at high speed, they wer laughed at for exagerrating :)

[Al Smith]

Trivia :Maybe twenty years ago another big steamer was being refurbished some place .They towed that monster to Lima and did some work on it in the locomotive shop of BLH .

At that time the company had been sold but the old machinery was still there .It sat there for around 6-8 months then towed to St Louis to be realigned in the last "quadrent" machine left in the USA .

The drive wheels on a steamer have a special tapered axle and those huge wheels are pressed in place .By design the cylinders are at exactly 90 degrees apart with regards to timing .The drivers have to be turned to the exact size and placed at exactly 90 degrees to work properly .

That steamer will be the last one ever done in Lima because the machinery has been sold ,the building leveled and will eventualy be a bio fuel power house or so they say .

If I get a chance in the next few days I will take a picture of the very last Lima built steamer which is on display at one of the city parks .

[Tree Reb]

You sure made some big ones.

This one has been going here for 60 years, gives the kids a good time.

It's a copy of the Flying Scotsman, it's been to the USA & Australia. Broke some sort of record here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_A3_4472_Flying_Scotsman

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http://www.pnc.com.au/~wallison/slsls.htm

[sotc]

Well worth reading - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_Big_Boy

When German spies in ww2 send back word of vast American locomotives pulling war trains at high speed, they wer laughed at for exagerrating :)

Very interesting

[stehansen]

Here is a picture of the water tower in Westley, CA. This was originally a Southern Pacific track but is now just a local track owned by the California Northern. There were two business on the property that still used this tank for water until about 10 years ago.

[Magnus]

Have you seen this?

http://chainsaw.mine.nu/downloads/1/060.MOV



http://www.chainsawcollectors.se/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=9203


http://chainsaw.mine.nu/downloads/1/058.JPG

[Magnus]

Steam engine bike!

:P

[Al Smith]

It is interesting the differences in HP ratings used on gasoline engines versus steam .

At one show I saw a big sawmill nearly stall a John-Deere 730 while a 40 HP steamer pulled it with ease .

At the same show I saw a 50 HP Russel steamer completely pull in two an 8 inch flat belt hooked to a Baker fan . Broke it like it was a rubber band .

[stehansen]

I think the torque curve is way different.

[Thor's Hammer]

The torque curve is completely flat, and about 10 times higher

[Al Smith]

My departed pappy used to tell of the days of thrashing machines with stationary power units from the 30's .

He and his cousin,both straping young men could nearly stall a Rumely oil pull which is a giant old machine with 10 inch cylinders .They tried this on a Case steamer but all they did was raise the boiler pressure and it didn't slow down a bit .

[Buzz]

My old man makes fully working scales models from scratch and sells them to fund his retirement !

God knows how he does it, the dedication is amazing...must get some decent photo's next time i'm down there.

I spent my childhood getting dragged to steam events and i'm still captivated by steam loco's.

[Al Smith]

I've seen several examples of scale working model Case steamers,hit and miss engines and in fact working narrow gauge locomotives .

These guys spend literally years building them .

I looked at a small Cincinati shaper a few years ago that was for sale .The owner had built a scale model of a flwheel engine on which he had offset turned the crankshaft from a solid steel billet . He cut the cam shaft on a Bridgeport mill .I was amazed to say the least .