Tree consult

stehansen

Climbing Up
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
9,185
Location
Ceres, CA
I have an appointment for a tree consult at my parent's old folks home. The maintenance guy Jerry wants to know why their trees are dying. I visit my parents about once a week so I have been watching these trees for quite a while. In my opinion the problem is lack of drainage. I'm sure the ground was packed pretty good in the construction of this place (it's a complex of several 4 story apartment buildings) and then a hole was dug with a shovel and a tree planted. When they irrigate water stands and the little trees hang onto life for a couple of years and don't thrive. This is all complicated by layers of hardpan that is in the east side of the valley and if this isn't broken before the tree is planted you are in a tough situation also. When a orchard is planted here each tree hole is first dug with a backhoe to break the hardpan and any other deep compaction that exists. My question to you guys is. Is there a method of breaking the soil up short of pulling the tree out, backhoeing the hole, and then replanting the tree? Another thing to add is that there is no freezing of the ground here in the winter which would break the soil up like there would be in a colder climate. Once the soil is packed, it stays packed for a long time unless measures are taken to break it up. Most of these trees are in turf and next to sidewalks, gas lines and all the stuff that is in a place like this. So that is why I am searching for some alternate way of doing this.
 
Air fracturing would probably be the least invasive and most cost effective.
 
Not sure that air fracturing would work in the hard pan there... It is like concrete. But... it sounds very effective.. Maybe so...
Pretty tough soil down there. It is pretty amazing what high psi applied right will do.
 
Do what the early farmers in the valley did:
:D
 

Attachments

  • Limage01.jpg
    Limage01.jpg
    128.3 KB · Views: 6
To help with compaction, air fracturing would work well. If it is hard ground a good gas drill and a long bit would help out.

A few hundred holes would be a start
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
That they did Frans. That was a little before my time, and they didn't do it where I grew up because there isn't any hardpan there. But I heard stories about the guys on the east side of the valley using dynamite or black powder to break hardpan.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
That's what I was just thinking, or maybe fill with that new polymer stuff.
 
Lookin' at some Lemon trees in compacted clay tomorrow.

Depending on what it looks like...

The guys doin' the job are using 4" holes 2' on center. Just inside the dripline.

Fill with 50/50 dirt and decomposed wood and leaf chips. Top dress with 1" compost and 3-4" wood and leaf chips.

I'd go with air too. They got a hole hog, might be cuttin' alot of roots...
 
funny i have a couple sites with similar scenarios
no money to do it right so just band aid it along is their theroy
i dont have an air spade..yet so ive been dong it with gas drill and 2" auger 18" apart.
fill with happy frog and dr earth organic...
and just to annoy frans i wash it in with a bucket of water and superthrive

i'd like to see it done by air spade
anyone in a 250 mi radius of me ever doing it ..id like to watch ( air pade use that is)
 
Hey, y'all ! Long time no see :)
Vertical mulching is a brutal pita, atleast from my experience... and usually too little too late.
I'm sorta wondering out loud here, but the words 'drainage problem' usually implies that the trees are drowning. With hardpack, there's a double-edged sword in that the hair roots are drowning but any roots under about 3" get nada.
Soooooo, if your client is willing to take a chance, my idea would be to make only 2 holes per tree (one on each side about 3' - 4' from the flare) but make them large & deep >>> Use a post-hole digger & go down 2'. Cheaper, easier and probably less invasive.
Oh, and call Miss Dig first.
Just a treechick's ramblings.
 
Theresa, that would depend on how deep the hardpan is and how thick it is. If it's 4" underground and only 12" thick then your method might help a little, depending if you put your holes where the water was standing.
 
Soooooo, if your client is willing to take a chance, my idea would be to make only 2 holes per tree (one on each side about 3' - 4' from the flare) but make them large & deep >>> Use a post-hole digger & go down 2'. Cheaper, easier and probably less invasive.
Oh, and call Miss Dig first.

I like that idea TC.

Saw that on some really nice Japanese Maples today, low corner of the yard.

The owner has a cool Meyer Lemon hedge on a raised hill area around the hot tub.

Friend wanted me to look at em'.

Best place for Lemons in the yard, they look great...

Too bad no work, made lemonade instead.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
The hardpan on my property varies from 12" to 24" and is 3" to 6" thick. That is just the first layer which is all I'm expecting to get through. When I did tree holes I did as deep as the backhoe will go and there are a couple more layers of hardpan deeper. The soil is very sandy and this hardpan is usually pulverized granite made by glaciers and washed down here when the valley was a big lake and settled into layers. I'm thinking if I do this job, I will go until i'm through the first layer and call it good. The website I looked at said to fill the hole with pea gravel and dirt.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
With something like this.
 

Attachments

  • avila 005 (Large).jpg
    avila 005 (Large).jpg
    182.3 KB · Views: 4
The website I looked at said to fill the hole with pea gravel and dirt.

The ones I seen are sleeved with 4" perf. (I think) Just open, no gravel. with a grated cap.

Seemed pretty easy to reach down there and scoop any mud, etc...with somthin?
 
Back
Top