Anyone using Donaghys "Armor-prus" for eye to eyes?

[pigwot]

HRC, Beeline, or Armor-prus? That is my question...

Is anyone using this Aussie rope for e2e's? Pros? Cons? Opinions? Doing lots of crane work lately and I am burning up eye to eyes quicker than usual descending from 60 to 80 feet repeatedly. (I know, use a figure 8... but I like the time saving of a friction hitch and footlock...)
Here is link to their site:

http://www.donaghys.com/arboristabseilrope.html#armorprus

Thanks

[lumberjack]

HRC or Beeline. I use Beeline.

[SteveBullman]

im using it, fantastic stuff and its infinetly better than hrc and beeline IMO http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=71924#post71924

and not to be fussy...but its from new zealand, not australia

[pigwot]

Thanks lumberjack,
Beeline has been my favored cordage so far. Just asked Nick to splice up another bunch of them for me...

SteveBullman,
It was on arbtalk that I saw a thread touting the wonders of Armor-Prus. Also recall that someone said one can only purchase in full reels at this time? In your 21-10-08 post you rated 4 for value, as you did not know what the final pricing might be. Do you now have pricing and access to smaller lengths in the UK? ...and thanks for the clarification on the New Zealand origin of the rope.

[SteveBullman]

its still not been taken up by any of our distributors yet. there are a couple of interested parties however. im still not sure on the pricing but it may be it works out costly with the freight. sorry cant be more help!

[NickfromWI]

I don't like that they put spectra in core. Spectra is known for having super low melting points and I routinely tell tree guys to keep spectra away from their hitch cords where high heat is just part of the normal day to day for some climbers.

How does it feel, though?

love
nick

[pigwot]

Hmmm,
Spectra isn't good for me...I like getting down fast too often to have a low-temp material inside. I guess I am going to stick with HRC and Beeline for now.

Nick, the review of the Armor-Prus is at:

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3855

Also, What do you think about Samson's Bail Out Prusik Cord? I understand it isn't ' currently spliceable, but as a knotted, eye-to-eye how does it stack up to HRC and Beeline?
Thanks,
Pat

[SteveBullman]

nice soft feel nick

[jamie]

Nick, i brought it up with them as i was concerned by it too, i can't remember exactly what Tony said about the dyneema but he gave a sensible reply / reason for having it there.

I'll pm him again and ask again and post it here.

Jamie

[jamie]

the core is a blend of dyneema / spectra and kevlar. Apparently tests have shown no ill effects to the dyneema core.

Jamie

[pigwot]

Looking into getting a length of the Armor-Prus from NZ... will let you know if I succeed.

[jamie]

I've been sent a short length of armor prus, i'll write a bit of a report on it and post it here when its done, so far my views are nice and stiff. Its a polyester technora sheath with the dyneema (spectra) and kevlar core. the kevlar makes up about 30% of the core.

Jamie

[jamie]

some pictures
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/treejamie/rope%20stuff/armorpruscord.jpg
sheath, it's not that shiny, it got a burst of flash

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/treejamie/rope%20stuff/armorpruscore.jpg
core, you can see the yellow kevlar half strands

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/treejamie/rope%20stuff/armorprusnakedeye.jpg
exposed eye, i got shot of this, un treated dyneema is too 'picky' i think and i didn't want to cut through it.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/treejamie/rope%20stuff/armorpruseyes.jpg
2 class1 DB splices.

I know it should be a class 2 splice. i figured unlike a singlebraid there is the crossover to help hold the splice together any thoughts boys and girls?

it feels like a nice cord, semi stiff. i'm willing to use it and then inspect it and the core. i'd like to see what the core looks like after a bit of use. i know dyneema has a low melting point how much heat is generated by a hitch.

lets say for arguments sake it hits 80degC how much stress does dyneema undergo at repeated heating to this temperature. i know other climbers who have had no problem with it.

discuss

Jamie

[jamie]

oh the core has 8 strands. 2 of the strands are 50% kevlar 50% dyneema, the other 6 are pure dyneema.

Jamie

[Skwerl]

Seems like a waste to me. Considering that each leg of your lifeline supports half your weight and each end of your hitch cord holds half of one leg of your lifeline, that would put the average static load at about 50 lbs on the cord. Not exactly a heavy load. Heat tolerance is much more important than weight rating IMO. High weight ratings with low heat tolerance is pretty much the opposite of what you'd want in a hitch cord.

[pete mctree]

This cordage is impressive. Very soft and flexible ( i had to adjust my VT to get the hitch to "stand-up" ) yet amazingly hard wearing. I'm used to replacing my 8mm lyros or Roblon every few days, however a single length has lasted me 2 months now. On the downside you do get very hot fingers on rapid descents and due to it's soft nature it does stick when wet

[High Scale]

Ive just got some from Steve so maybe soon I will get to test it out.

[NickfromWI]

I don't like having spectra/dyneema involved anywhere near friction hitch cords. It melts at too low of a temperature. It melts far lower than polyester and we all know you can burn a polyester split tail in a quick 15' descent.

I hope they swap the core out with technora, vectran or something else that can handle the temps.

Jamie- can you get the class 1 splice broke tested? It just might hold enough to safely and legally serve as a hitch cord spliced in this configuration. That would be idea as the core in the eyes would now be protected by the cover.

love
nick

[jamie]

Nick, I'm dubious about the spectra as well. thats why i spliced it as a class one, that way the technora and poly in the cover is there to add some support along with the kevlar strands in the core.

Donaghys say it should be spliced with a class 2 core dependent splice as per their spectra speed splice (also samsons class 2instructions, which i think are clearer).

I only have one short length so i can't really get it tested. i think i'd have to have some pretty big eyes in it.

Tony (from Donaghys) told me that spectra was used as it is more tolerant of tight bend radius than other exotic low creep fibres.

it's very easy to splice, i was able to finish the bury in my hand.

The sheath does look nice, my girlfriend however likened it to the electrical lead on her iron.

Jamie

[High Scale]

Thanks Jamie.

[jamie]

what for?


Jamie

[High Scale]

Information.

[High Scale]

My first splice.:D

[NickfromWI]

HS- is there even any core in the eye? It looks VERY flat too me.

love
nick

[High Scale]

HS- is there even any core in the eye? It looks VERY flat too me.

love
nick


No, it may be my first splice, don't mean I did it right:)

[NickfromWI]

On the left, there is a little red mark in your eye. It looks like the core stops about right there. It should go all the way through to the other side of the eye, and get buried down a few inches.

Don't climb on this splice. :)

love
nick

[High Scale]

No problem Nick, this is just practice now that I am laid off for a week, trying again now using the Superbraid/Spectraspeed instructions from Donaghys, easier to follow but a pig to feed the core in, I need to make a thinner fid.

[NickfromWI]

Are you using a pull fid or a push fid?

[High Scale]

Er, neither? I am using a bicycle spoke.

[NickfromWI]

folded in half, or with a little eye made at the end?

[High Scale]

Folded.

[NickfromWI]

So that would be a pull style fid. I would imagine that would be small enough to get the job done quite easily. How much of a tail are you folding into to the spoke fid?

Great idea to use a spoke. They are quite rigid. I might have to look into this!

love
nick

[jamie]

I found it super easy to do the bury, i use tubular fids, a bit of massaging and its in / through.

Like nick said the spoke is a good idea.

Jamie

[High Scale]

I need to get some scissors that actually cut, house full of scissors that don't cut.

[jamie]

ha ha, i have some high quality ikea ones that work, not brilliant but they cut. ony£2.50 for 3 pairs

jamie

[High Scale]

OK. I am starting to get it, I changed cord.:|:

[SteveBullman]

the armor prus is a bitch to cut

[High Scale]

Yeah it's a pig which is why I switched cord.

[jamie]

is that the 9mm double braid? i found that a tough bit of rope. i found the armor prus not too bad, vectran and a pure technora strand are a lot harder

Jamie

[NickfromWI]

High modulus lines in general (spectra, PBO, vectran, Kevlar, etc) are hard to cut. I would avoid scissors all together. Use a sharp, non-serrated blade that is as long as possible. The back and forth sawing motion minimizes the effectiveness of the cutting. Firmly wrap masking tape around the piece to be cut, then in one long smooth motion alive through the rope.

If you don't have a 6" super sharp blade, I recommend utility knives with replacable razor blades. They are always sharp.

I save my scissors for polyester and nylon, which is about 75% of what I splice.

love
nick