Burls vs bunions

DMc · Oct 26, 2008

I searched for the "Stupid Questions" section, couldn't find one so I'm sticking this here.

My wife and I were talking to a logger awhile back. He described how one of his buddies hauled out a large burl off a redwood with great effort got it to a wood dealer who proclaimed it a "bunion" and not worth anything.

My wife and I looked at him, nobbed wisely and said "hmmmm". Got back in the truck, looked at each other and said "what the hell is a bunion???"

I'm sure you all the difference, what is it?

Dave

SkwerI · Oct 26, 2008

Perhaps the difference is a dishonest wood dealer who got himself a desirable burl for nothing? :/:

MasterBlaster · Oct 26, 2008

I'm stymied.

Mr. Sir · Oct 26, 2008

DMc · Oct 26, 2008

Ok, I'm starting to feel slightly less stupid.

Dave

pantheraba · Oct 26, 2008

I'm pretty sure that I recently read where Jerry Beranek or Burnham distinguished between what someone thought was a burl and "something else"...may have been a bunion...one of them will need to fill in the details.

pantheraba · Oct 26, 2008

Here it is....from TreeBuzz, by Beranek:

"Diane, What your pics show is known in my parts as redwood nurl, and not true burl.

True redwood burl is a mass of adventitious tissue, buds as you will, most commonly found at the base of the tree, and serves to extend the root base.

When ripped into slabs redwood burl will exhibit the many minute individual bud, or branch eyes. It's referred to as "lace burl" by the burl cutters where I live, and it is highly valued.

Nurls, when ripped, exhibit a twisted grain that often looks like fire, flare, more typical of root pattern. Nurls do not exhibit any bud eyes or lace pattern. Nurl slabs are often passed on and sold as burl by unscrupulous sorts.

The reason or cause for Burl is widely accepted as a growth mechanism for extending the root base. While the nurl is seen more as a viral or bacterial infection. Indeed there is more to learn about nurls and the reasons they affect and persist. Two distinct varieties have been identified, your example the more common of the two. "

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showf...4778&Words=burl&topic=&Search=true#Post144887

The topic is "Old Growth Views"

DMc · Oct 26, 2008

Thanks, Gary. That sounds reasonable and is probably what the logger was talking about. Makes more sense than a bunion. :|:

Gerry is a fount of information.

I am surprised that nurl's apparently have little value. The bowls that Stig showed were quite beautiful, each in its own right.

Dave

gf beranek · Oct 26, 2008

A truism, Nurl has its own unique pattern and no less valued in many peoples eyes. But to attempt to pass nurl on as Burl is frowned upon in the community of reputable burl cutters where I live.

I will add the truism is older than I am and many merchants selling burl products today don't even know the true difference.

I'll post some pics to show you all the differences and the reasons why, but give me some time.

Al Smith · Oct 27, 2008

I don't beans from apple butter about a hurl,burl whatever .What I do know is that some extremely interesting inlays can be made of the stuff . I'll bet it's a real chore to work with though .

I can well imagine it fetchs a kingly price because of it's rarity .I know figured wood does but that's a different subject all together .

Che · Oct 27, 2008

Is there a way to harvest a burl while minimizing the damage to the tree itself? I've seen a few on the farm (Osage Orange and Cherry?)...but to take and hack them out stops me cold. It would probably take more than anything I could do to kill a hedge tree though.

Edit: found a site with some cool harvesting pix from down under.

treelooker · Oct 27, 2008

"Responsible burl harvesting, in the Goldfield region of Western Australia. Here the burls are cut from the sides of the trees leaving the host tree unharmed."

This is incredible without some explanation--the wounds magically do not decay?

CurSedVoyce · Oct 27, 2008

I really wonder about the wounds on that site... But cool site indeed. We had a full size walnut stolen in the middle of the night for the burl on our property here... During a thunderstorm...

Al Smith · Oct 27, 2008

Wood turners like burls .These guys or gals can turn them into a work of art .They may spend weeks turning a jug,vase ,whatever which they cannot visually see what they are cutting on a lathe . I'm not too shabby on a metal lathe but that type stuff those folks do is way beyond my league .

stig · Oct 27, 2008

Al Smith said:
Wood turners like burls .These guys or gals can turn them into a work of art .They may spend weeks turning a jug,vase ,whatever which they cannot visually see what they are cutting on a lathe . I'm not too shabby on a metal lathe but that type stuff those folks do is way beyond my league .

Thanks for the kind words.
If you check my Woodturning homepage www.tolstruptrae.dk
You'll find some examples of burl and nurl work.

Che · Oct 27, 2008

BEAUTIFUL work, Stig!!

I like this one:

stehansen · Oct 27, 2008

Pretty cool Stig.

Al Smith · Oct 27, 2008

Che said:
BEAUTIFUL work, Stig!!

I like this one:

Now that right there is an example of exactly what I meant .Super excellant work ,outstanding .

Now I can make a gear on an engine lathe,turn things in the shape of a trailer ball or put threads on a darning needle .Danged if I would have the patience to do that kind of work .

Newfie · Oct 28, 2008

An amazing example of skill and patience, Stig.

Che · Oct 28, 2008

I've never seen a bowl turned that thin...I know almost NOTHING about the process, but that in itself looks like it would take a true gift.

stig · Oct 28, 2008

Che said:
I've never seen a bowl turned that thin...I know almost NOTHING about the process, but that in itself looks like it would take a true gift.

Nope, just years of practise.
Do it enough times and you get a feel for wall thickness, that allowes you to make thin walled objekts without cutting through the side.
Mind you, I still run through the wall occasionally.
That particular bowl made it into an american book called: 500 wooden bowls.
The publisher asked carvers and turners from all over the world to send in photos and picked the best 500 out for the book.
My moment of glory.

Al Smith · Oct 28, 2008

There was a very rare lathe that was built strictly for artistic type stuff ,made about 1880-1890 . People used to have parties or social events watching very skilled artisens[sp] doing their work on those amazing machines . Those things are rare as a hens tooth and worth a kings ransom .

This of course is much different than free turning that most turners practice on their artistic creations .

stig · Oct 28, 2008

What you are thinking of is a so called Rose engine or ornamental lathe.
The most famous ones are the Holtzapfel lathes. They are worth small fortunes today.
Ornamental turning has become quite popular again in recent years, but I lack the patience for that.

Che · Oct 28, 2008

Here's a burl I've been watching:

Dave Shepard · Oct 28, 2008

Cherry burl. Nice stuff. Here's one I cut up this summer. Eight year old burl left on a logging header. 31" diameter.

Burls vs bunions

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