Mud Truck Thread!

[lumberjack]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05163.jpg

Any T-Houser need a spool gun? Miller 185 fwiw.

Unless I get compelled to keep it or someone here wants it, it's going to Ebay.

[stehansen]

You guys are crazy. And I mean that in the best way possible.

[lumberjack]

Dad's of the opinion that I should keep the spool gun, I don't disagree with him at this point.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_212/ That's the slightly more powerful and updated version of my welder. Only $2755 MSRP for one with the spool gun!

[lumberjack]

Got it hooked up and laid a short bead with it (MIG). The gun's liner came with a factory defect, so I know it's not been used. The gun end of the liner folded over a bit blocking the wire's path.

A 5 second fix with the wire cutters and I was squitin wire like a teenage boy.

[lumberjack]

This afternoon/tonight, Daniel and I got the axles stripped. We pulled the hubs, backing plates for the brakes, spindles, axle shafts and center sections. We pulled at least 5lbs of grease from each hub/knuckle (part of the design) times 4 hubs.

We pulled the center section (220lbs or so) in preparation to mohawk the oil pan to gain some clearance and loose the goofy drain plug. The carrier halves in the center section will have to be bored out to accept the larger shafts when the times comes. The current plan is to mohawk the axles, get them cleaned up, paint them, and store them until I have the moneys for the axle shaft kits.

FWIW, I can move the the bare housing with knuckles, but we used the chain hoist to lift the axles on the stand and to lift the center section out.

Still have to take the drums (30+ lbs each) off the hubs, going to use air tools for that. That should be about 60ish pounds we removed from each corner in scrap metal :).

After that, we got the range box pulled of the first transfer case, the one that goes in front of the 205 to act as a gear splitter.

Will try to take some pics tomorrow. All told we spent about 4.5 hours on them this eve.

[Jonseredbred]

200' of 1.75"x.120" DOM, 100' of 2.5"x.125", and 100' of 1.5"x.120" DOM would be $3453 from Metals Depot, delivered. Surely that would be enough metal to do the chassis.



Metals Depot is no deal at all. They are about double the price as I am paying for 1" x 1 1/2" rectangular tubing at the local distributor.:?

[lumberjack]

I'll check local for sure, that was just for a point of reference.


I'm nowhere near ready to start the tubing, but I do have a question. Do I want to run a front or rear engine buggy? The Rocks have a removeable 3rd so getting reverse rotation isn't an issue. If I go rear, I'll have to run an auto tranny (400), but my 203 transfer case will still mate to it and the 400 is plenty strong.

[Frans]

http://www.ih8mud.com/ :)

[lumberjack]

I have plenty of opinions at Pirate, I was looking for ya'lls input.

Plus, there's shit for rocks within an hour of here.

[DTW902]

Dad's of the opinion that I should keep the spool gun, I don't disagree with him at this point.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_212/ That's the slightly more powerful and updated version of my welder. Only $2755 MSRP for one with the spool gun!

I agree with your dad Carl, you can weld aluminum, stainless, or steel the same as your main gun. But the spool gun gives you a lot more reach. Is it the 15ft reach or the 30ft. looks like 15ft to me. I use my spool gun all the time, I have the 30ft reach.

[lumberjack]

I don't have a big aluminum bed to service. The only aluminum I have that I can think of is on the mini. I've never had to take something aluminum to the shop to have someone else weld it.

I also plan on buying a TIG at some point.

[DTW902]

Your missing the point you can put a spool of steel wire in the spool gun and get more reach. It's not just for aluminum.

[sawinredneck]

It seems to me I am seeing more and more MID engine setups Carl. It seems to giv e a better balance. But I see more of them go over as well!
Useing a dry sump oil system you have a much better chance at engine survival no matter what way you go!!

Keep the damn spool gun!! You will thank us latter in the future!

[BlackSmith]

.

[lumberjack]

In general, I meant the engine in front or behind the 2 seats.

[Frans]

Sorry LJ, I was rushed when I posted that link.

I wanted to say, that I saw a vid. from that site showing a guy crawling. He had a mid-engine vehicle.
I was impressed with how low the center of gravity was, and how nimble it was.
I can't answer your question but I always liked mid-engine placement. (for what its worth)

I switched a porche once. I think it was the 917? Anyway, put a chevy 350 in that little thing.
Just stuck to the road, but kept burning clutch plates.

[lumberjack]

I'm still planning on going big block, if only for the sake of having enough horses to get the big tires spinning. Mud requires horses, rocks require low torque, trails require a mix.

Rear engines can also allow better visibility, and protect the engine from alot of mud.

Here's a pretty general idea of what I'd be thinking about for a rear engine. Those are 49", it currently is on 54".

I do like the closed off occupants compartment, keeps the mud out! I'm not sure if I'll run those types of shocks, but I might (26" of travel).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/WarthogonTrailerResized.jpg

Some differences:
I was thinking of putting the fuel cell in the front.

The wheelbase is a bit long for those tires. However since I plan on running 54" and 66/72" tires, a longer wheelbase would be needed to make up for the R1/2 or Terra tires added 9" radius but not as long as that.

Different axles (top loaders vs his front loader) so my belly will hopefully be 6" higher or so. He is running a 205 transfer case with the front output clocked straight down with it under the input. I plan to run mine flat.

Otherwise, that's fairly well the same idea I'm thinking of for a rear engine.

For the record, that buggy has about 66" of combined travel in the suspension. The shocks have 26" of travel.

I was wanting that much flex, but with a hydro over nitrogen shock setup so I could force the flex (lift/lower each corner individually), or be able to let the nitrogen work as an air shock when I didn't need it.

[Frans]

Man your gonna have one awesome toy! Propane powered?

[lumberjack]

Probably not. There's a monopoly here local and it's more expensive than gas.

Plus if I went on a trip it'd be harder to locate.

[MasterBlaster]

I wish I had that kinda money to blow on an expensive toy.

I'd get a Ural.

[lumberjack]

Just as an example, excluding caffine, I spend less than $50 a year on mind/mood altering drugs like cigs or booze.

A smoker that burns 5 packs a week burns what, over $1k a year?

The 2 pack a day guys burn I'm guessing $2550 a year or more ($3.50 a pack).

We're probably looking at "finishing" it at the earliest maybe some time 2010 but more likely in 2011 or later. The only hold up is the money. I'd like to collect parts as I go so I have plenty of time to make up/change my mind :lol:

"The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys."

[MasterBlaster]

You use tobacco, Carl?

[lumberjack]

I might smoke 5 cigs a year.

One night with Topper and his wife I smoke a pack :lol:.

But in general, no.

I might buy a few fifths over the year, but they are more of a community drink.

Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure I paid more than $50 in St. Louis, not counting the free drinks.

My point was the "average" person spends a goodly bit of money in a given year on their vices. No it wouldn't pay for the buggy, but I'd guess it makes a difference.

[MasterBlaster]

I might smoke 5 cigs a year.


And just think... there once was a time when you only smoked 2 or 3 cigarettes a year.

You shouldn't play with fire.

[lumberjack]

:lol:

The last time I recall smoking was winter of 06. Daniel has started smoking lights and they make me choke, aint worth the effort to buy a pack of Reds. Yep, he's an idiot.



I was thinking of saving up $8k or so and getting a snazzy new four wheeler. Save up another $2k or so while I'm deciding what, if any modifications it "needs." It'd be way cheaper and easier!

[Paul B]

hmmm, around here a pack of butts is darn near $8. a six pack is about $10. pretty easy to get caught up in vices.

[Jonseredbred]

Carl I am thinking the fuel cell in the front may be a saftey rule no no.

Being a circle track guy I want to have that way behind me and alot of speed to keep it behind me.:D

[lumberjack]

On most four wheeler's it's between your legs.

There'd be a firewall (pun intended) between the fuel tank and the occupants. The tank itself would be well protected, aside from running into pipes/logs/other longish poles sticking out at the correct height.

My thought was for more nose weight, however your point is dually noted (gosh more punnyness) and water in the front tire would give farm more weight but not in the same way.

Another difference I'd like to make is a thinner distance between the roof line and the belly with the height being reduced.


Blacky, know anything about the portals? That'd be pimp as hell although they are a bit tall for most uses. The rear axle looks a bit funny with the 3rd member removed as well as the back of the bowl. And it's clear that's a well thought out suspension design. Looks like well over 200% AS.

[lumberjack]

A couple nights ago I started removing the "bowl" on the bottom of the axle in preparation to mohawk it. I was nearly done with my old Milwaukee grinder bit the dust. Yesterday I got another grinder (Dewalt) and it burned up today in about 90 seconds. The second Dewalt did fine.

Anywho, here is what I did this evening. Most of the time was spent trying to figure out how I wanted to do it. I think I have it figured out and will finish it tomorrow. I gained about 1.5" of clearance and made the bottom of the differential rock/stump/snag/leak/FUBAR proof, hopefully.

There's about a 3/8" clearance around the bull gear (internal). The arch is made from 4"x.5" flat bar. The cheek plates are .25".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05349.jpg

5" to the bottom of the housing
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05347.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05355.jpg

Center Section:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05352.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05356.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05358.jpg

About 3.5" to the bottom of the housing. The square is at the "back" of the axle, the front angle is shallower and the bottom piece is also angled slightly to promote sliding over an obstacle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05360.jpg

[Dave Shepard]

Cool! A modern aluminum rafter square with brace table and hundredths scale!


Sorry, that's the timber framer in me.;) That looks good LJ. My TJ skidder had a dent in the front diff housing, and the gear ate a hole in it.:O Your fix looks pretty bomb proof.:D

[Tzed250]

My truck after the ice storm last night...

[MasterBlaster]

I try not to park like that.

[Cobleskill]

Looks like you got lucky. Don't see any dents in it. You probably need more practice driving in that stuff!!

[Jonseredbred]

I try not to park like that.

'Cause it will scuff the whitewalls??:P

[MasterBlaster]

Whitewalls? That's a black thing.

[sotc]

tell the wrecker absolutely no damage when he pulls it out!!

[Skwerl]

yeouch! Nice looking truck though, hope the driver's side isn't banged up too bad. :cry:

[BlackSmith]

What do we think of a new Millermatic 185 w/ Spoolmate185, tank (filled), and 20lbs of wire (.023 and .035) for $850? Not quite enough balls to spray mild steel.

Carl,
Get ya a tank of Stargon. It's a tri-mix (90% ar 8% co2 2% o2) gas that burns hotter and damn near no spatter. Should spray just fine.

[lumberjack]

You think 185 amps is enough to spray .035?

I'll give it a shot when I get a new tank. :)

[cutitup]

yeah, that stargon is good shat, however a bit pricey.

[Tzed250]

Looks like you got lucky. Don't see any dents in it. You probably need more practice driving in that stuff!!

Well...lemme see...Yeah I guess 30 years of driving on West Virginia roads in the winter isn't quite enough practice.:knucklehead:

[Tzed250]

yeouch! Nice looking truck though, hope the driver's side isn't banged up too bad. :cry:


Not one scratch:beerchug:

It took two trucks to winch it out without tearing it up. It was a pretty bad storm..multiple traumas in the local ERs, dozens of wrecks.

[JIML]

You think 185 amps is enough to spray .035?

I'll give it a shot when I get a new tank. :)

no.

I have a gas mixer and have tried the "stargon" with my miller 210. Never could get a very good spray out of it.

takes alot of power to do spray transfer.

[Cobleskill]

Glad your truck was OK TZ. I think the biggest problem with winter driving is slowing down enough to be in controll. Ice is definitly worse than snow. Knock on some wood it has probably been 20 years since I have visited a ditch. That is not to say it couldn't happen tonight though. I came through some 100% whiteouts the other night. That is scary-where the hell did the road go?

[darkstar]

Jasyus Carl you never cease to amaze me .
How did you learn so much at 22 years of age.
Where did the mohawk idea come from ? Why do it ?

[lumberjack]

Mohawk kits are sold, but you're looking at $180-200 for the cover and you still have to cut and weld it on (not a big deal). You can gain clearance, decrease the likelyhood of leaks, and greatly increase the strength.

I paid $37 for (nearly) 5' of 4"x.5" flat bar, and the 1/4" stuff is essentially "free." The length of .5" flat bar I have is enough to do 3 cases, or about $12 bucks per case and the experience of coping compound angles without 3D modeling templates.

[lumberjack]

First go round for the chassis design. The red section is the passenger compartment, yellow is for the engine, green is the "nose." The yellow and green "walls" are the bulkheads between sections.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Chassis10.jpg

9' from nose to tail, 3'5" inside the B pillar, 5' at the widest point. The B pillar will probably grow 3-4" to after I get the seats figured out. With 1.5"x.120" tubing, SW predicts 375lbs, w/o welds or bends. Under 415 shouldn't be terribly hard. That's approx. 210' of tubing.

The tail will be built around the engine, but their shoud be plenty of room for it. The fuel cell might go in the nose, to help with the weight distribution.

Some improvements I see right off is adding tube from the A pillar's bottom node, to the bottom tube. Another is to add a V tube in the center of the windshield.

Open to suggestions. :D

If you want a different perspective of the chassis, lemme know :)

[Paul B]

Where does a fella built such as yourself get in? :D

[lumberjack]

Haha that's kinda the idea, it's kinda cumbersome to get in, which means it's just as hard to get out. The hole to get in is 23" long and 20" tall, in the current state, which is about as big as I'd want it to be.

What I see happening is I get it built, and you come to visit. You ask to drive, I oblige, you hit the funny button. As our lb/hp ratio exceeds the Z06, light starts to blur like we're in Fast and the Furious. Something hits the fan and we're barrel rolling through the woods at rpm's that should be reserved for tires at the Salt Flats, or the quantum physics department.

Instead of us loosing an arm or a leg because it got out and trapped between the cage and a hard spot, we hop out and have a beer.

Then again, maybe it was me driving.

[Frans]

LJ, not really to what you asked but..
Plastic windshield?
where will the spare tire sit, and can you get it on and off easily?
have you figured out space for spare parts such as drivelines?
where will the main winch be located? The nose section may be tight with the fuel cell in there. Also will you have a smaller winch for lowering the rear end?
How will you configure the wheel wells?
Lights mounted externally?
Will it be street legal? or strictly off road?

[lumberjack]

Might have a bolt in safety glass windshield, but that'd be an after thought.

The spare will sit on the trailer along wtih the spares. If I'm on a trip where the trailer is farther away than comfy, the spare can ride on the back of the tail section.

There will be a winch front and rear for extraction as well as a seperate winch for each axle. The front winch will probably be between our feet. The winch for the axles might be a hydro cylinder for ease of mounting.

Wheel wells, if I have them, will be mounted to the axle's knuckle and will be easily removable.

The lights will come later in the design. If I mount them on top I'll build a bar to protect them incase of a roll over. The roof's slant is 4" lower at the front than the rear.

Street legal in a literal sense? No, hydro steering is a nogo on the street.


Now I'm working on gettin it skinnier. Trying to stay remotely reasonable in width with over 3' of tire on each axle takes some doings. The tail is far wider than it'd have to be, as is the nose.


Here's V1.1. Pink is original tubes that are in the same approx position, but have been reworked. For example the A pillar brace was lowered to increase visibility over the grey brace. Grey tubes are new tubes. 442lbs/246' of tube.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Chassis11.jpg

[Frans]

Here is a wild idea, Make your mud truck out of RC parts and then you can 'bench test' it to see how it runs.
http://www.rcrockcrawling.com/

Guy that works for me built one up, and oddly enough he has made some changes on his 'Blaze Cage' rock crawler. He said it gave him some ideas which he might not have thought of otherwise.
The little car actually handles just like a normal rock crawler.

I like your project please keep us informed.

Forgot what engine your gonna use?
Also, at every junction of pipe, will you gusset those areas?
Have you thought about receiver type mounts for the main winch? You could save some money by being able to quickly swap the winch locations from front to back. ONly use one main winch that way.

Had a thought, those axles your gonna use are heavy mofos. Gonna take a strong frame to keep them in line. Is the pipe strong enough?

[lumberjack]

I'm doing my modeling in a virtual medium.

I'm using a Honda J35A3 with a 5 speed transaxle.

I won't gusset every joint, but alot of shear pannels will be added.

The winches will be hard mounted, it's easier to get a stronger, protected mount.

I won't be using the Rockwells, they are geared too deep. Most likely I'll start with a D60/14bolt setup, perhaps growing to 4 wheel steer.

The frame pictured above is overkill^2-4. It's made from tube, not pipe.

I'll post some more refined pics tonight. Also, this is just a concept frame. I'll have to run it through a different program (or through solid works again) to add the bends.

[simplypete]

Well it's not a truck but its what I've got. This is from last weekend. Took longer to clean it than it took to get it muddy.

[simplypete]

Not one scratch:beerchug:

It took two trucks to winch it out without tearing it up. It was a pretty bad storm..multiple traumas in the local ERs, dozens of wrecks.

You mean to tell me that the 4 low and the rear locker that comes stock on that pick up didn't pull itself out? I would of thought that my pick up was up to that sort of challenge. :? Nice truck though isn't it?

[lumberjack]

Argh, I started stretching the passenger compartment 4", got that done and started stretching the engine compartment. I was going along fairly well until I ferked up and generated some fubar geometry.

I started fixing that, had too many things loose and it fell apart like spaghetti. No biggy I thought, revert to the start of that, but alas it autosaved somewhere.

Now I gotta go back and narrow the chassis from version 1.2, resave 1.3, and stretch to 1.4 before I can show current pics with "block people" sitting in the approx location and the axles/tires at ride height.


For now, I'm going to bed :)

[sawinredneck]

Isn't CAD wonderful:lol:

[lumberjack]

Noone's fault but my own, deciding to go to bed before I get overly frustrated with it. :)

[lumberjack]

Actually I didn't have to redo 1.3, saved alot of time. In 1.4 I added 6" of leg room, dropped the top of the nose down a bit for better visibility, and raised the end of the foot box/bulkhead 2". The block people are my rough deminsions. The legs are the height of my foot all the way back.

The weight is about 950lbs with 2 people my size. The COG is off a bit, but presently in the top view the COG is just ahead of the bottom X below the seats, dead inline, and from the side view is about 2" into my "leg".

Frans, you can see the room between the feet for the forward winch in the top view, about 15" between the feet. The "feet" are 10" wide in the top view, but there's more room in the red compartment to spread them out a bit more.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/top.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Front.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Left.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/HighRightFrontlookingdown.jpg

[Frans]

You've got mud truck fever bad :lol: I sure am interested in your progress!

[lumberjack]

For the record, it's more of a off road buggy than strictly mud.

Mud alone wouldn't need near the suspension, rigidity, or effort.